Politically High-Tech
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Politically High-Tech
259- Navigating the Intersection of Western and Islamic Worlds
What if everything you thought you knew about Islam was shaped by misconceptions? Join us on "Politically High Tech" as Eric Brazau, our special guest with a fresh, unbiased perspective, unravels the complexities of Islam and the diverse experiences of Muslims worldwide. Through his lens, we critically examine preconceived notions and challenge the often skewed perceptions perpetuated by mainstream media, encouraging listeners to rethink their understanding of this multifaceted faith.
Our conversation ventures into the Western perceptions of Muslims, dissecting how imams' teachings and cultural practices such as Sharia law and the burqa influence beliefs across continents. By scrutinizing the actions of groups like ISIS and the Taliban, we explore the arduous task of defining Islam's true essence amidst varied interpretations. This dialogue highlights the intricate interplay between cultural norms and religious doctrines, urging a more nuanced and informed global perspective.
As we further contrast Western and Islamic civilizations, we tackle the underlying moral and political dilemmas that surface in this cultural dialogue. From historical events to contemporary political dynamics, we stress the importance of open and challenging conversations for societal growth. With Eric Brazau's insights, we illuminate the significance of understanding and respecting diverse perspectives, paving the way for meaningful engagement with these complex issues. Listen, reflect, and become part of the conversation that seeks to bridge divides and foster a deeper understanding of Islam and Muslim communities.
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Welcome everyone to Politically High Tech with your host Elias, this episode's infotainment, if you want to call it that, it's going to be entertained. We need a re-education and, even though this is going to be a little more canadian-based, but I believe a lot of this could apply to america as well. You know, and there's, I still think there is great misconceptions of islam and muslim in general that I think the West just doesn't understand. And I have an expert here who's going to help out with that. Okay, because, just like the Christian denominations and various Jewish groups, there's different groups of Muslims as well, and not all of them agree on everything. Surprise, you shouldn't be. Any big group. Any big faith based group Will have this.
Speaker 1:Okay, this is Big. You can have many opinions. You can have people worshiping All of this one way or the Other way, or some will tolerate western Stuff and some will not. Okay, but we're gonna go through. I will say some of the misconceptions I think the west needs to understand. If he's an expert and I'm gonna say this, I'm happy that he clarified with me, because I kind of assumed he had at least some islam or descent or background. He doesn't. He's just look at things very, very objectively, and I think we need to do more of that. So just say oh, I like this kind of Muslim or I don't like this kind of Muslim. You know, you can have your preference. That's fine, but at least listen to a fair point of view before you make that decision, instead of listening to the biased media, especially American mainstream, the only one muslims when it's convenient. I'm calling out mainstream media for that.
Speaker 1:So enough of my monologue. I'm going to introduce the guest here. His name is and I might butcher it and I tell the guests before recording. Feel free to correct me, destroy my ego. You kill my ego, please. So I have a guest here. His name is Eric Brazo, perfect. So the first question is what do you want?
Speaker 2:the audience and the listeners to know about you. Well, what do I want them to know? About life in general or about the subject matter? A little bit of both, okay. So I'll try to stick more with the subject matter, what I try to like.
Speaker 2:My premise is Islam is what the vast majority believe it to be, is what the vast majority believe it to be, and they believe it to be what it is, that the, what is called the Salaf or the Salafiyah or the Sunni Islam is. The predominantly 95 to 98% to, at a minimum, 85% of the Muslim community is what's called Sunni Islam. Now, many people will say we do not like the extremists, we don't feel comfortable with the fundamentalists. We don't feel comfortable with the fundamentalists. Or there are some Muslims who identify as what's called reformer Muslims who say my Islam is compatible with the American Constitution.
Speaker 2:What I have learned, and what I write about very clearly in one of the chapters of my book, is, if you were in an elevator and you met a man who was a Buddhist, he had a sign on his forehead that said I'm a Buddhist. But he was not very nice that day. He was very angry, he was disappointed. Maybe his dog just died, he just went bankrupt. You could say well, I deduce from this Buddhist man that Buddhism is a bad religion because I met a Buddhist who was not very nice.
Speaker 2:Consequently, if you meet some quote-unquote nice Muslims or quote-unquote bad Muslims, you could deduce Islam is this because I met some nice Muslims or I met some bad Muslims, and obviously that does not make any sense. Similarly, you could meet a nice grandmother who bakes cookies but was a member of the Nazi party, or she was the secretary of Hitler, but she's a nice, polite lady and she makes cookies and brings them to her, to the little children in the kindergarten. Now, the fact that she do. We judge her by the fact. So if we said I know a nice 85-year-old lady who bakes cookies, therefore, and she was a Nazi member, therefore I can conclude that the Nazi party is nice because she's a nice person, you cannot do that correct.
Speaker 1:Oh no, absolutely not. A person with a functioning brain will just say that's crazy no, but you understand.
Speaker 2:No, when you say a functioning brain is crazy. Not, absolutely not. Because in life most people do not critically analyze their thoughts, their, their thinking, their opinions. Most people have opinions that they've formed over the last five, six, ten years or three months and they're not sure why they think what they think. They just think what they think because that's what they think.
Speaker 2:So how many people do you know actually come home at the end of the day and analyze all of their thoughts? Oh, slightly, not. No, no, you don't have time. But you know, you're working, you're going, you're filling the gas, you got the kids you do. You know who can sit for an hour and meditate on their thinking, thought process? They don't. And then again, most people prefer to believe what it is that their tribe believes. So if you and all of your friends are I don't know leftists, it might be difficult for you to have a conversation or to have thoughts that are not in the leftist ideology, because that would be thinking outside of your tribe and vice versa. People want to belong. So what part of your opinions and thoughts are from you, legitimately, and how much of them are from external factors?
Speaker 1:I mean, we have molded since we were babies to believe this, do that right, just to fit in, right to please the family and then move on to the friends and the social groups, like you said. No, that I absolutely agree with that. We are social beings so we want to fit in. So we're gonna mold our opinion just to fit in with the group. We are social beings, so correct.
Speaker 2:So sometimes you can be belonging to a social group and perchance, it just turns out that some of those opinions maybe are correct. However, it could be that they are correct opinions, but they're based on the wrong premise. So, just like in law, when a judge gives a decision, as important as the decision is how he came to the decision, he has to write that out. Similarly, most people who have an opinion on Islam do not know precisely why they have this opinion, and maybe you're not aware or you didn't see that in the social media. In 2012, I went to jail for Islamophobia.
Speaker 1:Yep, I just saw that in my research. Oh, excuse me, no, I just saw that on social media very recently, recently, when I was. Research is old.
Speaker 2:Right. So I was in Canada a notorious Islamophobe. I was on the newspapers. It was a big story from coast to coast and I won't get into details.
Speaker 2:But something happened and in the summer of 2017, I re-evaluated my stance. I went back to zero. I re-evaluated my stance, I went back to zero and I swallowed, because I like to believe that I'm a very reasonable, intelligent, logically based person. If I don't know something, I will say to someone listen, I don't know, I don't have an opinion, I won't argue on that point. So I said perhaps I was making a mistake.
Speaker 2:So I threw away my Islamophobia. I made some public pronouncements on YouTube, on social media, denouncing my past indiscretions, my past behavior, my past ideology, and I started on a new path, a journey ideology. And I started on a new path, a journey to discover the Islam in Canada and America based on the teachings of Muslim scholars, imams and the texts available from here in North America. So I no longer paid attention to the imam in Qatar, saudi Arabia, yemen, pakistan. You know I didn't listen to that Islam. I said I'm going to confine myself to America and Canada and I now can say with some confidence that I am a preeminent expert, not on the religion of Islam per se, but on what they say Islam is.
Speaker 2:When I say they, meaning the scholars and the imams, the senior ones, the senior organizations Canadian Council of Imams, national Council of Canadian Muslims plethora of imams from coast to coast, including in America, and I've also studied what it is that the, what we would call the modern progressive Muslims. What do they say? Islam is Now? So you have the two camps, two voices in essence, but important to ascertain is how big is each camp? Just like an army affects the outcome, an army creates what we would call critical mass. So if one camp represents 1% or 2% of the ummah the community and the other's voice represents 90 or 95% of the Ummah the community and the other's voice represents 90 or 95% of the voice the Ummah, you can then therefore conclude that 95% more closely resembles the Islam of the community. Do you follow so far?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so far. In other words, the people who say this are the majority, right, they're the ones that have the say and they shape the perception of that. Correct, okay, they shape the community. They shape the community, the beliefs and even some reformations.
Speaker 2:They're the ones who are speaking in the mosques. So every Friday, when the Muslims go to the mosque, which Islam are they listening to? Which Islam is being preached? Is it the LGBTQ-friendly Islam or is it the Islam that says, in essence, homosexuals must be killed? And those two voices are very much alive in the mosques in Canada, in America. So that's what my book explored. That was my first book. My second book is working to understand how Islamophobia is shaping the narrative of Islam's contribution here in Canada.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I'm curious about the first book because there is a strong misconception right that oh many Muslims are homophobic.
Speaker 2:Well, you see if I may come back, elias. Yes, I no longer discuss Muslims, and that's a very important part. The same way, like in the elevator, I do not care what an individual Buddhist thinks about Buddhism. I don't care what a communist thinks about communism. Is he a good communist, a bad communist, a happy communist, a sad communist? I don't care. What does the communist manifesto, what does the party, the communist party in Russia, the Duma? How does that communism practically affect the people? That communism practically affects the people. Similarly, I don't talk about Muslims, I talk about simply, what do the imams teach Islam to be. Then we can assume that if Muslims will be influenced and affected by the imams and the leaders of their community, fair yeah, that's fair Okay simple.
Speaker 1:I think it's a perspective that I'm coming from right. It's that these are the misconceptions that are strong, pretty strong in the West right, and I'm looking for any clarity or debunking or anything.
Speaker 2:Well, when we say misconceptions, it would be like, would you agree, that in social media, or even in all media, there is both misinformation and disinformation? Of course, 4 and 4 is 8, and somebody else could say, no, that's disinformation. And me and all of my 1,000 friends are going to say 4 and 4 is 9. So if you didn't know the answer to either of those, you would not know who was giving the disinformation and who's giving the true information. So my question to you is how do you know who is giving the disinformation?
Speaker 1:sometimes that's hard to trace something. You gotta dig and dig and well, okay.
Speaker 2:So the point is, is I and several, but not that many others am in a position to tell you what is it that 95% of the most imams in North America and in Europe are preaching? And what is it that 5% are preaching? Because I've studied that for the last 10 years and some people don't like to hear what it is the truth and the realities, right? So, for example, if I were to say ISIS, al-qaeda, here in Canada there's an imam called Shabir Ali, very nice imam, senior imam with the degrees from University of Toronto, speaks Arabic. He said on his show called Let the Quran Speak that ISIS justifies their actions with verses in the Quran, with the doctrine in the Hadith and jurisprudence over the last 1400 years. They use that to justify their actions. That's what the Imam said. Therefore, it would be difficult to say ISIS are not Muslims because they use the doctrine of Islam to justify their actions. So somebody could say I don't, you or me. We could say, well, we don't like the actions of ISIS, but could we say they're not Muslims? I'm not sure about that If imams will tell you that, well, yeah, isis and Al-Qaeda, they're Muslims. So another imam called Yunus Kathadra in Vancouver, karim Abu Zayed in Colorado, have said very clearly that the Taliban because just recently there were some stories about the Taliban mandated women to wear the burqa, to stay in their house and not have it. You know about that, correct? Yes, okay, they were saying why does anyone in the world have a problem with that? That's their business. They are now the governing authority in Afghanistan because they are the government. Therefore, it is within their rights to implement the Sharia, and all Muslims should love for the Sharia to be implemented. So what the imams here in Canada were saying is that Muslims must, quote-unquote, act within the law, and right now, the law in Afghanistan is such and that's the law and that's wonderful.
Speaker 2:Some people will say that what's happening to the women in Afghanistan is horrible. Some will say that and they'll say that that's oppression. Some others, doctors of Islam and imams will say well, that's liberation, because Islam frees women and allows them to not be seen as objects and that, aside from that, the burqa and the full face covering is mandated by Allah. Now, is it, is it not? It's not for me to say, but that's what the Imam says. Okay, so is that the true Islam? Is that the false Islam? Well, that's the Islam that they want to live. And if we're going to say religion is an internal spiritual communication with God, correct, right. And then we say, or it is said, all religions are equal and all cultures are equal and we must respect all cultures, correct, nope, equal. And all cultures are equal and we must respect all cultures, correct, nope. Well then we should respect the taliban, we should respect isis on. Based on that doctrine.
Speaker 1:That's a tough one and I you got me thinking this very differently. Now I'm beginning to to understand what the Western misconceptions is. Well, why they saying why this is? You know? You already said, you know, woman wearing a burqa is law, right, because the Taliban runs the government, so that's official law. There's no argument there used to, you know, women dressing whatever they want, essentially. So we just projecting our belief into, you know, to these um events, even though they're they're the government, they're the, they're the, they're the government. And you know, if, look, some people's not gonna like it because we could see it around the world. We got social media and mainstream media covering these things and, yeah, I mean that's, that's a lot. So I hate to say I hate to say I don't want to say like, move out, because some of them cannot afford to move out, they don't like it. But that's a tough one.
Speaker 2:You got me thinking so that brings us back to when it's some misunderstanding Muslim, whether it be in Germany, Sweden, North America, San Bernardino, California, goes on a shooting spree or blows up a bus Right, Not all Muslims, not all Imams denounce that action. Some will, but many actually don't. So you might remember the teacher that was beheaded in France.
Speaker 1:No, I don't remember that one, but I do remember the San Bernardino shooting In France.
Speaker 2:The teacher was beheaded after school in broad daylight because apparently he showed the cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad to his class. The point of the story is this it was a huge backlash in France and the Imams many Imams you would find actually on my website there's a place called France Crisis. I spent countless hours downloading and putting up videos of the interviews of the imams themselves, who said very clearly now is not the time to do such actions, because these types of actions will bring more difficulty to the Muslim ummah. So you have to weigh the pros and the cons. And am I talking? I went through 15, 20, 30 imams. None of them actually said that cutting off the man's head was wrong. They said now is not the time to do it. And many and actually have also said we cannot do such actions when we are in a minority Because it's silly. You have to wait. So is that the good Islam or the bad Islam? It's not for me to say, but that is the attitude of all the bad Islam. It's not for me to say, but that is the attitude of all the Imam scholars, and one of the persons who said exactly this is Yasir Qadhi, and the other one was Omar Suleiman.
Speaker 2:Omar Suleiman is the founder of what's called the Yaqeen Institute in America. He gets government funding. He actually was invited by Nancy Pelosi to give the prayer at the opening of some assembly or something a few years ago. He wears a suit with a nice tie. To see him. If you looked at him you would want your daughter to marry this guy. He's six foot four. He's got a nice, you know, not a long beard, nicely, you know, manicured, all of that. He looks very civilized and he comes across as very civilized.
Speaker 2:Yet he was upset that France and Paris was supporting the teacher who was beheaded and saying that it was wrong and was tracking down on the mosques. Because after the beheading, france went crazy. I mean, they really were right. They were freaking out, they were afraid, because you can imagine a teacher beheaded in the middle of the day as he's walking out of school and the reaction of the Muslims, the Muslim scholars, was this is just one teacher beheaded, no big deal. Why are France overreacting like this? No big deal. Why are France overreacting like this?
Speaker 2:So that those subtleties are something that I look into? It's my job, it's what I do. You could say I'm obsessed. Perhaps I am. The same way. A heart surgeon knows everything about hearts. You know, a doctor of the brain knows everything about the brain. It's what he does. This is what I do.
Speaker 2:So a Muslim has a religious duty in the Quran, in the Hadith. In his community it's very to do what he can to make sure that Islam is the dominant religion and that Sharia law takes over the nation. That's a religious duty. Now, is that a good thing or a bad thing? It depends on who you ask. Here in Toronto I forget his name, it'll just come to my head spoke very clearly to a lecturer. He said, and I'm quoting now we do not, we Muslims do not want to take over for the sake of taking over, but we want to take over to make things better. We don't want to take over to enslave the people, but to help them to get to paradise. So, to make things better, we will have to take over from one perspective, but we're taking over for the betterment of Canada. So that in itself, some people it would rub them the wrong way, but then others will say well, we are Muslims and as Muslims it is our religious duty to take over and make every place that we go to at some point, whether it's in 50 years, 100 years, sharia, because this is the law of Allah. Is that good, is that bad? It's not for me to say, but it's what it is.
Speaker 2:Example I once was at a party and I met. I was talking to some girl and I explained to her that crocodiles and alligators don't have jaws to chew. You know, alligators don't chew their food. Did you know that? Uh, no, okay, so an alligator will grab you and another alligator will come and they'll do a death roll, which means they'll pull you apart, they'll just twist in the water and they'll rip you apart into pieces and then they'll swallow chunks. So the girl who I thought was kind of loony, she said that's disgusting. I said, well, it's crocodiles. And she said I don't like crocodiles, they're bad animals. I said, well, that's the crocodiles. They're not doing that because they're mean, because that's how they eat. You cannot blame a crocodile for being a crocodile, correct?
Speaker 1:Right. I mean rather, you like it or not, that's, that's their nature, that's a crocodile yeah.
Speaker 2:So when we talk about islam, we have to talk about the religion of islam and not some muslim people, because then again, when you might see a buddhist like back to buddhists you might see him on a good day or a bad day, I mean it depends on the day. You see him, right. And then again, what is it that this Buddhist man wants you to see? Is he telling you the whole truth or part of the truth? For example, I'm sure there are people who don't know the real you. They only see what you want them to see. Not everybody knows you, correct.
Speaker 1:Of course.
Speaker 2:Right, okay.
Speaker 1:I want people to know me. That's why I'm doing this podcast. Little by little it comes out, but people choose, you know, if people want to know something, they will know it, you know. And people want to hear what they want to hear, just like that loony girl, little girl that liked the crocodile, just because of their nature. Right, I don't want it. I don't want it. If they don't like me, they're going to find reasons not to like me.
Speaker 2:So I'm using that similar analogy so Islam is, or could be, isis, al-qaeda, boko Haram. The imam with the big, long red beard who says you know, we have to take over America. Free Palestine from the river to the sea, wipe out Israel. That could be Islam. Muslim Student Association, muslim Brotherhood in all the universities. That is 95% of Islam, or that's 95% of the Muslims. So Zuhdi Jasser, who is a Navy surgeon lieutenant, he wrote a book. He's very famous in the modern liberal Islam. He specifically has said and he features in my book because he's a reformer Remember Muslim reformers, fundamentalists he says my Islam is compatible with the American Constitution. Did you hear what I just said?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you said his Islam is compatible with the US Constitution. What's the key word there? His Islam, Exactly His Islam, Right, his Islam, Not the Islam, not you know anything like that.
Speaker 2:No, his Islam Right. Irshad Manji, who is a social professor in California, et cetera, et cetera. Now she came from Toronto. She identifies as a lesbian, a lesbian Muslim, and when she goes to places to speak about Islam, the police cancel her engagement because they can't offer her protection, because the hotel, everything is stormed. She was in Malaysia, she had to leave the country. Nobody was going to stand for her to speak on a stage, was going to stand for her to speak on a stage. So when she goes to lecture halls in California or wherever people love her, she's funny, she's kind of cute. She gives lectures to nice theater halls 400, 500 people. Unfortunately, not a one of them is a Muslim, her biggest. And she sells books. It was bestseller, but nobody, no Muslims, don't buy her books because no one can care less what she has to say. So of course, if you ask me or I ask you, you probably don't like the Islam that you know throws gays off of rooftops, correct?
Speaker 1:Even in general I didn't. I was just I mean in general.
Speaker 2:No, no, I'm making a joke, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but you don't like that Islam.
Speaker 1:Oh, no, of course not.
Speaker 2:Okay, sure, but that does not stop that Islam from kind of being the vast majority of the true Islam Right, the general view. Well, I work with some Muslims and I go to school with some nice Muslims, and they were. You know, I'm a university student and I know a lot of Muslims and I never saw them do anything like that. Well, of course not. But how many people in North America would sit down and have a conversation, a deep conversation, about the true beliefs of the Sunnah, the Hadith, the Prophet Muhammad, what he did in 707, you know, the Crusades? So we can go on and on about many aspects of the clash between Islam and Christianity. So let me ask you this question Do you know what's called the Gates of Vienna?
Speaker 1:The Gates of Vienna like Austria-Vienna. Yes, correct, Austria-Vienna.
Speaker 2:Um, no, okay. So at some point I can't remember the exact date right now Islam was going to invade Europe, because Islam conquered a lot of land. They were conquering a lot of land with a lot of force. The Christian civilization made a stand with the Poles, the Austrians, hungarians and stopped them at Vienna. That's why it's called the Gates of Vienna. There's a website called the Gates of Vienna. So that battle it was at some major point in the history of Western civilization could be seen in two ways. One way is the Christians stopped Islam from taking over Europe and destroying Western civilization. The other way could be the Muslims were not able to bring the light and the blessings of Allah and Islam and Sharia law to free the people in Europe from Christianity. You see what I just asked you, yeah. So was it a good thing that the Muslims were stopped at Vienna or was it a bad thing that the Muslims were stopped at Vienna? If you ask the Muslims or a Muslim, they would say that was a bad thing.
Speaker 2:Scholars and imams will tell you very clearly that the covering of the face, the niqab. There is dispute about whether it is mandatory or obligatory. Sorry, obligatory or preferable, meaning. Some scholars say you have to wear it, you must. And other scholars will say it's preferable but not mandatory. And still other scholars will say and I'm talking about doctrine, now only one eye needs to be exposed. You probably didn't know that, nobody know there was, pardon, not in.
Speaker 1:I know there was mandatory for some scholars. I mean, I dabbled into this a little bit and of course there's some that prefer to do it.
Speaker 2:That's why I have you here, because you're helping me Enrich my understanding of At least so let me ask you, is that extremism the Islam and the Imams who say Women must cover their face or say it's preferable that she covers her face? Some would say In the West that to encourage women to erase her identity is very weird. It's a weird thing in civilization to have people walking around with face masks. Okay, yeah, it's maybe not preferable. I mean, I don't Personally myself. If you ask me personally, I would not want to live in a civilization when all the women's faces are covered. I agree.
Speaker 1:I easily agree with that.
Speaker 2:Okay. So then let me ask you this question If a father, very nice guy, goes to work, pays taxes, is a muslim man, goes to the mosque, does all the nice things, tells his daughter, because they raise her, since she's a child, so they can, you know, mold her, of course, to some extent to a large extent that at the age of eight years old or nine years old, she now starts to become a real woman and she must cover her face and her hair because she is now a sexual object. Some people would say that that's very weird, but in Islam, in Iran right now and a few other places, but I know in Iran, they're thinking to lower the marrying age to nine years old, and many Muslim communities follow the example of the Prophet Muhammad, and the Prophet Muhammad married his wife, aisha when she was nine lunar years old. Now, the reason I use the word lunar is because a lunar year does not correspond to a solar year. So nine lunar years old is actually eight and a half years old with the sun. So Hadith will tell you that the Prophet Muhammad married Aisha when she was six or seven, but she came to live with the Prophet when she became nine.
Speaker 2:Now, is that extreme, is that weird? It depends who you ask. But within the Muslim communities, it depends who you ask. But within the Muslim communities, it is understood that if a man were to marry a nine-year-old girl and do what a man does with a girl when she's in his know, that's another issue here, canada. But the Canadian police Muslim chaplain for the Toronto police is on record saying very clearly in a video upload that to do that practice today, you could get in trouble because our society is so perverted that they would not be able to. To do that practice today, you could get in trouble Because our society is so perverted that they would not be able to accept that you can do this with a nine-year-old girl. That was the police Muslim chaplain Mushlak Khan.
Speaker 2:Now, is that a good thing or a bad thing? Not for me to say, but that is the reality of what Islam is. Now there are others who will say no, no, no, that's not right, that's not good, we can't do that, okay. But there's others who will say, yes, we can, because that's the teachings of Islam. So again, who is an extremist? An extremist is a label that some people want to put upon other Muslims, but is it fair. I mean, if someone is living his religion the way he thinks his religion should be lived, who can tell him he's wrong? Are we allowed to tell them he's wrong?
Speaker 1:I mean you said a lot of interesting points. I think when we label what's right, what's wrong, what's extremist, what's okay, it's based on how we was brought up and raised right, correct, because of our personal preference and opinion, or biases, or biases right Into labeling, you know, into labeling, you know, and yeah, I mean, I mean me, I could think some of it is weird and wrong, but you know, but I appreciate you, you know, just bringing what's what they do, because I think we need to get a clear understanding of what they do. What's their thinking. Um, you know the thing, if, especially from not just regular people, because I like, I use the example we label that whole religion just based on that one bad attitude right, which is unfair to begin with, as opposed to the nice nazi grandmother you like her because of the cookies, which is insane, because she actually supported people getting killed, even though she's acting nice. I like that thinking because that's why I don't go by attitudes.
Speaker 1:If a person has a bad attitude. I don't think that I go beyond that because, personally, if a person has a bad attitude, it's because something bad happened. It's just that bad thing. We absorb the emotions too much. I think we get too emotional when it comes to these things. So I appreciate the objectivity you bring to this discussion. It's challenging me personally, which I actually like, you know. So it's good. You know I came in here with some of my Western thinking, but at the same time I'm trying to understand what are my biases, what are my blind spots. I mean, I'm still going to have my opinions and all that. At least I'll come out with a clearer understanding. But let me ask you this question?
Speaker 2:Sure, is it at some point? Is it legitimate, after research and some knowledge, for you to say that the into the mountain to appease the volcano god is a very backwards, dumb culture.
Speaker 1:I'm asking you, I will still say that, but at the same time I'll understand why they did it. Sure.
Speaker 2:So now the question is did it because they got sure? Yeah, but. But so now the question is do you say that that culture is?
Speaker 1:equal to your culture.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to be honest no, okay, very good, of course, please be honest, I'm being honest. So then the point becomes at some point, is it fair? As a man, you have to stand somewhere. You can't. Just, you have to make a judgment at some point. Correct, correct? So I have this question that I've asked some people and I said if you're standing on a bridge and under the bridge is a big flood, people are being washed away. They, they're going to die. You see your granddaughter or your daughter in the water. Beside your daughter is another girl, some girl, a nice girl. But the genie says you can only save one of those girls. Who do you save? Oh, I save my granddaughter. Yeah, who do you save? Oh, I save my granddaughter. Yeah, I always save the relative. Well, your daughter, yeah, the daughter, yeah. Many people will not answer that question. They say well, it depends. I don't know who's closer, but can I say both?
Speaker 1:They don't want to say no, if I only save once, like you said, I'm not afraid of some of these questions because I thought about these deeply. I said, well, if I can only save one, it's got to be, you know, even if it's a son or whatever. I'm just going to pick the relative Correct.
Speaker 2:So what that tells you and psychologists have said the same thing humans, on some level, are tribal. We can't get away from that. We do prefer our own relations more than non-relations. That's natural. Relations more than non-relations, that's natural. So why would we expect so? Another story I went to an election here in my neighborhood for the federal parliament and a man called something Mushin was having a barbecue, like a political barbecue.
Speaker 2:You understand that, correct? Yeah, okay, at this barbecue there was me, another person, another person, and we were the only white people there. Everyone there of the four or five hundred people coming and going, were Bangladeshi. When I asked them and I would talk to some very nice-looking people, all of them were wearing suits, ties, mostly A few of them were wearing the hijab.
Speaker 2:Why are you voting for this candidate? Why are you voting for this candidate? Every single time, the response was because he's a member of my community. When I would ask and remember I'm very polite with holding barbecue or eating hot dogs and I would ask but how does that help Canada? That question they did not like that question was like fighting words and their response was it is time for the Bangladeshi community to get a piece of the pie the Bangladeshi, he will promote the Bangladeshi community. Oh so Bangladeshis don't vote for the candidate who's going to be best for Canada, they vote for the candidate that comes from their community. End of story.
Speaker 2:Now if a white person were to say I'm voting for this guy because he's a white candidate, that would raise a lot of eyebrows, of course. Okay. So there's all of these things that are playing. So we have Muslim candidates here in Mississauga and other places who get elected to parliament only because they're Muslim, because then they push quoteunquote the Muslim agenda, the Muslim caucus, the Muslim community. We have special programs here in Canada that allocate special funds to promote the Muslim community and Islam and Muslim cultural heritage. Okay, but then when you start to understand well, what is Islamic cultural heritage? Well, separating men from women, because, if you notice, in every mosque there's a separate exit entrance for the men and the women. Imagine I had a store and I had a separate a store, like a grocery store, and I had a special door for the. A separate a store because a grocery store and I had a special door for the men, a special door for the women, that would be shut down, correct yeah, boom, I mean, that's already.
Speaker 1:You know that's. I'm gonna use the american context. I got more comfortable that that's already. Gender discrimination right there, correct, so Correct. So that's a big problem already.
Speaker 2:So when something becomes a religion, all of a sudden it gets special treatment. Now the problem with that is, when we think of religion supposed to be, we think of internal spiritual connection to God. Islam is first and foremost a way of life. It's how you deal with the law, interest rates, foreign relations, everything judges inheritance. So there is no concept of separation between spiritual and political. It doesn't exist, and the Imams will tell you very clearly and they argue against this that Islam is a complete and total way of life. Every aspect of your life is Sharia law. How you walk into the bathroom, there's a dictate you use your left foot to walk in, you use your right foot to walk out. In Islam, you don't drink with the left hand. That's Shaitan. It goes on and on and on. So when you hear people say well, we are against political Islam, you've heard that one.
Speaker 1:I've heard that a couple of times. Yeah, I've heard it.
Speaker 2:We're not against Islam, we're not against Islam, we're against against Islam, we're just against. We're not against Islam, we're against political Islam. Well, that's misinformation. It's either misinformation or disinformation. It would be like saying I'm against wet water. Well, how could that be? Water is wet, it's water. What makes water water Is its wetness. So what makes Islam Islam Is the fact that it's a total system of life. Everything, so in Islam, legislation, all laws, come from Allah. Nothing comes. So, yes, as a man, you can what's the word? You can vote on who's going to be the ruler, but the ruler must rule by the legislation that comes, the law, from Allah. And these are all the things that come out very clearly in the book. Now, is that good, is that bad? Do you like it? Do you not like it? That's another issue, but it is that. And so far, this book is almost a year old. Nobody has discredited it, nobody has tried to discredit it.
Speaker 1:I mean, how are you going to discredit decades and years worth of study? I mean, how are you going to discredit decades and years worth of study? I mean that's very hard to do.
Speaker 2:Well the book. I say nothing. All I say is what it is that they say. So if you have a problem with the book, that means you have a problem with the imam.
Speaker 1:Argue with him, Not me, you're just a messenger. You're just a messenger.
Speaker 2:I'm just a messenger. I'm on a journey to discover the true Islam. I'm learning and what I learn I put it into a book and on my websites, on my YouTube channel non-stop.
Speaker 1:I say this was pretty heavy, but I actually enjoyed this conversation. I'm definitely learning something out of it and I'm going to address my listeners reviews for a second. I know this is long, some is difficult, but take try to take yourself out of the equation. At least try to get an understanding what this conversation is about. Look, I know we like to be ourselves, we try ballistic, we go what we like, push that aside. Try to push that aside because I want you to have an understanding.
Speaker 1:I have this expert here about what Islam or Muslim is. And then you know, know, you form your opinions, whether you like it or not. But let's be intelligent about it, because I used to fall for that same thing. Say, oh yeah, I didn't like that political Islam. But remember it's a way of life that you know. And I love that analogy he put. Are you against wet water? All water is wet. That's nonsense. The only dry water is evaporated water. It's gone, correct, it's all or nothing, really Right. So just make sure you have that understanding. You can form whatever opinion you want. Trust me, I don't agree with all of it. I'll tell you that much.
Speaker 2:Well, when you say you don't agree, there's nothing for you to agree with. Because how could you I mean, I'm not saying I don't know, red is the best color for a fire truck you can say no, I don't agree with that, I think yellow would be better. Okay, Right. But again, you see, you feel the need, as the nice person that you are, to put something there where you don't agree with everything I said. But I haven't said anything other than what it is. The imam say no, I'm not saying with you. No, I'm not saying with you.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying with you personally because you're just a messenger. So my argument is saying with you personally because you're just a messenger. Okay, so my argument is actually with you and not like most people. I could make that distinction.
Speaker 2:Okay, it's just. You know I don't agree with you. Know you might be saying that you do not want some of this Islam to become entrenched in America.
Speaker 1:Look, because some of it you know, just like that reformed person. I think that reformed person is a little naive saying that, oh, maybe that person's Islam is compatible with America. But things you already said, that's the way of life. So they're living it, breathing it, talking it, everything. So it's all or nothing and that getting. I'm not Islamophobic either, because I do have some Muslim friends.
Speaker 2:So let me share this with you. It just came to me Sure, sure. In the Quran and the Hadith specifically says the Imam in Vancouver specifically said in English, very clearly hating the Yahud. Do you know what is Yahud?
Speaker 1:I better say it when I stand up Muslim, the Jew, the Jew oh yeah, Hating the Yahud is the religion of Islam. Pardon, I should pay attention to the rude. I said Yahud Yahud, yahud Yahud.
Speaker 2:Is the religion of Islam. If you do not hate the Yahud, then go to the church, go to the synagogue, but the masjid, the mosque, is not the place for you. Okay, in Montreal there were two places uploaded to YouTube where the imam was saying oh, come and kill the Jew that's hiding behind me, we have to kill the Jew. Okay, that's hate speech. That's very not nice. He was saying that in the mosque. Oh, so what more do we need to understand that it's possible, and maybe very likely, that there's a reason why 150 years ago, islam was on one side of the world and Christianity was on the other side of the world and they did not mix. There's a reason for that. Now you have Muslim congressmen and a lot of people.
Speaker 2:You know, slowly, slowly, things are changing. There's things you can say. You know, here in Canada especially, there's a lot of things that you cannot say because it would be a crime, which were not a crime 50 years ago. That's changing over, you know, on a very rapid basis. So if you, it's not about, is Western civilization better than Islamic civilization? That's not the conversation. The conversation is which civilization do you prefer? Is socialism better than capitalism? I don't want to argue that, but I prefer capitalism, that's all.
Speaker 1:And I'll be in agreement on that one. I prefer capitalism as well.
Speaker 2:Right, but you don't have to argue why you prefer capitalism. You can just say I prefer capitalism. Do you like blonde hair or black hair? Women, I mean it's whichever you prefer. It's your right to prefer what you prefer. I'll be red hair, but a short.
Speaker 2:Do you prefer Western civilization or do you prefer Asian Chinese civilization? I'm sure Chinese civilization could be very good if people like Chinese civilization could be very good. If people like Chinese civilization, you can go and visit China, be there for two, three weeks, visit the culture and then come back home. But there's a reason why Chinese civilization is over there. Canadian or Western civilization is over here. Go visit Pakistan two, three weeks, come back home. Go to Africa visit, come back home. So do we want America and Europe and Canada to more reflect the culture of Pakistan, afghanistan, tajikistan, kurdistan? Maybe we do, but then again, maybe we don't. And that's a conversation that we have never had in the main in the public. If me and you were having this conversation in a coffee shop that we're having right now, it would make a lot of people very angry oh, yeah, yeah, okay, but I but these tough conversations need to be had.
Speaker 1:And this is the problem, and this brings my biggest criticism of ancient america a lot of people, you don't want to have these conversations. This is why the problems in general continue to fester and get worse, because we don't want to deal with the tough, grown-up conversations. We want to deal with the easy stuff. We want to put the hard stuff aside well, is there anything?
Speaker 2:I pretty much said mostly what I want to say or what I can say. I just at this point, I've been repeating myself, so is there anything that you want to ask me or clarify, or Um? No, you actually answered uh, a lot, maybe more than you bargained for.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can say that that's an accurate statement. Well then, what? Yeah, and I've got to say I was not prepared for this. But hey, I need to follow my model. They're not a tough conversation, even if I'm not fully ready or more than I bargain with, because if it's what I bargain with, then it's not difficult, right? So you know, listeners and viewers, I hope you enjoyed this difficult conversation. If you survive through a lot of this audio onslaught, good for you. Now let's get to the shameless plug-in. You already talked about your book. Where can people get your book? Your sites, all that? Well, his site, his main site, is EricBrazoo, and I'm going to spell that for you. That is e-r-i-c-b-r-a-z-a-uco, that's dot com, okay. And then he has an email as well. That's eric brazu at gmailcom. He has a phone number as well and, like he has book, he has a bunch of content regarding all of this. And look, this is a guy that has been arrested for perceived Islamophobia, so he's tough.
Speaker 2:I was in jail for three years in a five year span, yeah, so so I paid a price.
Speaker 1:He spent through trials and tribulations the book is available at Amazon.
Speaker 2:Muslim Reformers vs Fundamentalists that's it. And then there's a website, the blog. So obviously I'm not doing this to sell books, that's it. And then there's the website, the blog. So obviously I'm not doing this to sell books, but at some point it's possible. It's possible that what we call Western civilization could slip away. Remember there was a time when this place we call Turkey you know the country Turkey?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was the Byzantine Empire. Lebanon was Christian, egypt was Christian. Many people don't even think about that, but Egypt was Christian, syria was Christian, jordan was Christian. So why is it necessary? Like, for example, you have a house, you have a credit card, you have a life, you know you have to keep things together, right? It's possible that if you don't keep it together, what happens? It falls apart. It falls apart, yep.
Speaker 2:So, it's possible that if you don't keep it together, you become homeless and you have a Okay. So if you're not diligent and take care of business, bad stuff will happen. So why is it? It's not a guarantee that our civilization must survive if we don't take care of business to make it survive. The same way, you would not invite I don't know homeless crackheads or you know, to live in your house. You're not going to say, come over, crash in my house, don't worry, I'll take care of you. That would be a problem oh, that's, that's.
Speaker 1:That's a. I'm begging for a problem right.
Speaker 2:So that's not a smart thing to do. Now imagine you have a wife and a daughter and one day you come home with a crackhead to let him sleep. I mean, your first priority as a man is to take care of your family. Yeah, so what is the priority of our government? What is the priority of our civilization? What is the priority of our civilization? What's happening? I'm not saying it's good or it's bad, I'm not saying what's happening, but that's a conversation that we need to be having. I mean, if we just look at the southern border in America, there's 20 or 30 million illegal people. So people are actually dying in America, being killed by people who shouldn't even be there. Wow, I can't imagine how I would feel if my daughter something happened to her in a major way by an illegal immigrant. I would freak out. I don't know if I could handle it, because the number one priority of a government is to the safety of the citizens. So you've seen what's recently happening in Amsterdam, london, england, germany.
Speaker 1:Not dabbled into that. Things are looking pretty chaotic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So we come back to. If you invite five and six homeless crackheads to crash in your apartment, once they're in your house, it might be difficult to get them out of your house, okay. And on that note cheerio, cheerio, happiness and smiles.
Speaker 1:Muslim reformers, fundamentalists after the homeless analogy, I think people are going to come out spooked more than anything, because, oh my god, we're going to think about the homeless, but I do get the intent, get our act together. I don't think we're going to think about the hopelessness, but I do get the intent. Sure.
Speaker 2:Get our act together. At some point it's too late. At some point.
Speaker 1:Right, right, exactly Now. I'm just going to get to that, and if we don't, there's no turning back.
Speaker 2:At some point, yeah, at some point. And so what you need to start asking people, your friends, your group, what point is the tipping point? Is it in six months? Is it in five years? Is it last year? You know like at some point it's a time for what we call urgency.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm going to say it's based on the recent election results so far. It's counter-effect on that. I think some people already hit the tipping point. Okay, enough is enough.
Speaker 2:Right so, but the question now becomes what effort will be needed To reverse Again. Like the homeless analogy, it's real easy to bring six homeless Crackheads into your house. You just come on, they just walk in, it's easy. But once they're, it's easy, but once they're there, it's not so easy to get them out.
Speaker 1:Right. And then, of course, if it gets worse, well, we're going to have to abandon that apartment and go somewhere else. Then that's if you have enough money and resources. Exactly, you've created a problem that creates more problems. It's exponential, that's even then. That's if you have enough money and resources, exactly you created a problem that creates more problems.
Speaker 2:It's exponential because it takes. How many hundreds of years did it take to build America? Well, it took a long time.
Speaker 2:A lot of time, a lot of effort, a lot of blood, a lot of sweat. You know the revolutionary war, the war, you know the British. A lot of blood and sweat and money and resources to build America, to build Canada, to build Western civilization, and now it's all just could be just being thrown away because people don't care as long as they have their high-speed internet, their Twitter, you internet, their Twitter, their social media, as long as they have their baseball and their football access, their streaming platforms so they can watch all the movies.
Speaker 2:they're fine, but there is one group of people among us who is on the offensive and they don't live for this world. They make a point to say our true life begins in the next world. So we sacrifice this world for the next. And they have a plan and, as they say, a man with a plan has a better chance of succeeding than those who don't even have a plan. So, as a group, the Muslim community has a plan Very clearly laid out. They know where they're going. They're dedicated to their mission.
Speaker 1:Yep, so as a civilization we gotta get our priorities straight. It's nice to get all this internet stuff, all this entertainment, but that could be easily gone if we don't get our basics, our ABCs, our life together.
Speaker 2:Well, we can start by just accepting certain. If we don't get our basics, our ABCs, our life together, well, we can start by just accepting certain realities, right? So this conversation that me and you have just had might be your first foray into this reality. Now you can understand why not a lot of people want to have this conversation with me.
Speaker 1:Oh, I totally understand it's not very popular. It's not popular but I don't mind having it because it is needed. I go by the big picture. I put more objectivity. It is needed and I've said this multiple times on my podcast. This is not the first time. Tough conversations are needed. Do I like to have the light hearted, entertaining conversation? Yes, that will be other episodes. There's some that I like to tackle the hard stuff, even if it's not popular okay, I'm looking forward to receiving the link.
Speaker 2:You know, and it's been a pleasure to have had this conversation with you likewise, even though I was uncomfortable at times.
Speaker 1:But I'm happy I had this conversation because it's it's a neat and it's good because I'm actually tackling hard conversations, so discomfort is actually weirdly a good thing. It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much. No problem, thank you for your, your advice, you know this actually is a bit I'm exhausted a little bit.
Speaker 2:I've shown Thank you so much, no problem. Thank you for your advice. You know, this actually is a bit I'm exhausted, a little bit I'm tired from this. It's like I had a workout.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, I'm going to wrap this up. We're going to get rest real soon. So like, share, subscribe, tell your friends, family or anyone daring to listen to this. Okay, so, for wherever you listen to this podcast, you have a blessed day, afternoon or night you.
