Politically High-Tech
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Politically High-Tech
265- The Intersection of History and Hope
History has an uncanny ability to teach us resilience and unity, if only we take the time to listen. This episode begins with a heartfelt commitment to confronting anti-Semitism and fostering open dialogue. I'm honored to have award-winning author Roni Robbins join me, sharing insights from her latest book inspired by her grandfather's poignant journey as a Jewish immigrant. Together, we explore the profound impact of storytelling in preserving our past and challenging the rise of historical ignorance. With courage and empathy, we aim to inspire listeners to embrace diverse perspectives and build bridges across cultural divides.
Imagine facing adversity with unwavering courage; that's the legacy my grandfather left behind. His role in developing streptomycin, an essential treatment for tuberculosis, is a testament to the power of familial support and resilience. Alongside his bravery, the love story of my grandparents, standing firm against life's challenges, exemplifies the strength of family bonds. This personal history inspired a successful novel, reminding us of the enduring lessons from our past and the optimism needed to navigate life's journeys. By examining these narratives, we reflect on how disease exposure and resilience shaped medical advancements and personal growth.
Blending fact with fiction in storytelling poses unique challenges, especially when personal histories are at stake. We discuss this delicate balance, alongside the ethical considerations of maintaining objectivity as a journalist. Personal interviews and family stories play a critical role in crafting narratives that honor the truth while inspiring hope. We also address the importance of embracing individuality and the pursuit of purpose, encouraging everyone to recognize their value and potential impact. Through inspirational tales and thoughtful reflection, this episode offers a beacon of positivity and unity, urging us all to learn, grow, and connect.
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welcome everyone to politically high tech with your host, elias. I have a guest here today and I'm gonna say three times it's the charm, and I know some of you, you know, say, uh, another story based on anti-semitism. Let me tell you something the fact that some of you cannot grasp this. I feel compelled to do another story and I will do even a solo one if I have to, even on islamophobia. I have muslim perspectives in this um podcast and I am seeking more as well, because, at the end of the day, I want unity. I want you to understand as many perspectives as possible. This is not going to be an extension of cnn, fox news or whatever other propaganda crap you love to drink. Drink their Kool-Aid. No, if you're not an adult that wants to be exposed to different perspectives, then I don't need your listenership. I really do not, and I'm going to say this as brutally as I honestly can. You're dead to me. I need people who cares about unity of this country. I want people who could challenge even this podcast intellectually and with common sense and with great thinking. That I didn't even think of, because I'm sure there's some blind spots to what I'm doing. There's a few guests that pointed out a few things that I didn't think of it that way. That's why we have these conversations we learn how to be better people. If you can't have that, then you're just a tribalistic monster. Yeah, I will call you out, and I don't mind doing that, because I have this calm and nice side. I also have an aggressive side as well, but I'm gonna leave it at that. I don't want this to be a long monologue about being open-minded. I cannot change your mind at the end of the day. You want to leave? Go to your chamber, you do that. But this is for people who want to be exposed for different perspectives.
Speaker 1:Okay, this is going to be another, another anti-semit, anti-semitism theme, another lesson learned from the past, because we are losing our way. We are certainly losing our way, and you can come up with a counter argument, but I doubt it's going to be successful. You can, you can argue, you can put it in the comment section, but don't be surprised if it's going to get scrutinized or even countered. Okay, just don't be surprised. If it's going to get scrutinized or even countered, okay, just don't be surprised.
Speaker 1:So, with that out of the way, let's introduce and let me be a little nicer now. So they give me a stern warning, because I only want the strong intellectually strong, strong in unity. Those are the people I want. I don't want tribalistic people who are just going to say, oh, all Jews are evil, all Islam is evil, all Christians are evil. Nah, then you're the problem. You need help. If you're open to talk, I could do that, but if you're not open to talk, then I'm just going to leave you alone. You're far gone.
Speaker 1:Let's introduce this gets here before the monologue gets too long. Let's introduce this gets here before the monologue gets too long. Because I could, I could, I could ramble on if I don't catch myself. Let's welcome ronnie robbins and she has a book because we need to read more literacies down the drain. Yes, it is.
Speaker 1:This is could be an antidote to fight against illiteracy. Some people don't eveniteracy. Some people don't even know basic history. Some people don't even know the Holocaust. Even a few people have said the Holocaust doesn't exist. There's a fact that's at 25% is already alarming. I don't want to wait that to be 50. That's enough to generate a civil war. We already have a fraction of people that don't believe in the Holocaust, which is insane. It's well documented.
Speaker 1:I don't know how much more proof you need. You think everything is doctored and AI generated? You're the problem. No, go get help. Really, any tragedies that you want to deny, you're the problem. Okay, calm down, elias. I'm about to go on the tangent here. Let's have a more lovely voice in this conversation. Just, uh, balance my more masculine stern energy that I'm putting right now, because this one thing I'm just not going to tolerate crap. We did the tolerated crap. Things have gone worse. Okay, that has nothing to do with tolerance of different people and all that. It's just ideas, and stupidity has been flourishing, and this is why we need more stories like this, okay, so let's welcome Ronnie Robbins. I'm going to finally be quiet and just start with this very simple question what do you want the listeners and viewers to know about you?
Speaker 2:I'm an award-winning, multi-award-winning author and journalist and I've been writing for different publications right now the Atlanta Journal-Constitution and Medscape WebMD, where I was an editor. So I come with a very strong writing background and about 20 years ago or so, my mom gave me cassette tapes and I transcribed them. My grandfather left his life story and his adventures and near-death experiences in Europe and America. Now, it's not totally about anti-Semitism and the Holocaust. It's broader than that, because it's about Jewish immigrants, it's about Jewish culture, it's about families. It's really anyone's ethnic family story, because we family story, because we despite anything you might, you know, feel either way. Um, many of us are descendant from descendants from immigrants. Now, not to comment about what's going on now, uh, but but. But america was founded on immigrants, so my grandfather was one of them about a hundred years ago because it was 1925 that he he came here to find a better life for his family and he contracted tuberculosis and he, so he battled that for much of his life. He was a clinical trial patient for streptomycin, which is still used today, and paved the way for other medications, because TB is still the largest infectious killer in the world, despite what we think about COVID, and so there's a lot to the story.
Speaker 2:It's a romance, it's a committed relationship and what you have to do when in sickness and health, I mean those words are we say them when we get married? In sickness and health, I mean those words are we say them when we get married. But what do they really mean? They mean when somebody gets sick, one of the members of the couple gets sick, you are there for them, because life doesn't always roll you the best life. You have struggles, you have obstacles to overcome, and so they were married for 65 years and they died. My grandparents died on the same exact date of each other, a year apart. So that was the initial spark of the novel was just this romance and all they went through together.
Speaker 2:They did lose most of their family in the Holocaust. What was that like? Not because they went through the Holocaust, but because they lost their whole family. So they had the guilt of what could I have done differently? Why didn't they listen to the signs of the time to get out? Why didn't they follow me and some other siblings to America?
Speaker 2:But he came here for a better life and to escape being conscripted into the Czechoslovakian army and despite everything, despite all of his struggles. They lost a grown son to leukemia and he was involved in a workplace shooting spree. Despite all of that, the end goal was that he was able to provide an American life for his family, a life of blessing, a life of faith, a life of family values, all the good things that are important in the world to fall back on. So it is a story of persistence and survival against the odds. Like I said, it's more than just anti-Semitism and the Holocaust. It was published by a Holocaust publisher from Europe, the largest publisher of Holocaust memoirs. This is a fiction because I made up a lot of stuff and played with the facts, so I couldn't, as a journalist, feel right about saying it was nonfiction, especially the dialogue I made up. So I think that pretty much tells you who I am and what my goals of life are to just share my writing with the world or to just share my writing with the world.
Speaker 1:No, that's one of the things. Let me just be clear. I know anti-Semitism is not the central theme here. I had to just bring it up there because it's still a big, big issue. I should have brought up the immigrant thing too, because immigrant is also a very big issue as well. I'm sure you know Donald Trump's been elected. Whether you love them or hate them, things are going to change with the border, for better or worse. Well, time will tell.
Speaker 1:That's all I'm going to say is to keep it short and neutral. Okay, yeah, I'm look my my brief opinion on immigrants. They are necessary. They're the fabric of america, rather, you like it or not. Removing them out of the american dna is like removing wheels of a bike. It won't be able to move. It's a, it's needed. Okay, it is well needed.
Speaker 1:And look, I am a pro-migrant person, but I do gotta admit the immigrant system needs fixing. It needs fixing and it needs to balance humanity to those who want to come, have a better life and being tough on those who wants to do harm to this country. That's the balance that needs to be striking. That's the one that america, just in my honest opinion, have not figured out. Yes, I want the right-wing wrath on criminals, but I also want the democrat compassion to those who want to come and do right and they need help. Let's help them, because most immigrants are coming here for a better life. I would say like oh, I mean worse estimates is like 95 right, overwhelmingly, it's not even, it's not an offered debate only half the immigrants? No, no, it's like overwhelmingly majority, but it's a mess and it needs fixing. They want to do harm then, yes, I agree with the republican wrath on that one, but people want to do the right thing. Let's use the more democrat compassion in the system. That's we need to. We need to balance those two things out.
Speaker 1:Okay, and that's what I'm going to say about that um, because, yeah, you're right, immigrant is, you know, even better, it's like a connecting to the heart. Bobby, cut that off. I don't think america's gonna survive much longer. You know, um, we all immigrant, I'm immigrant, it's needed, it's needed and you know it's. You know they and they and they should be encouraged to come. You know, I think we're still a good country, but we got to get our act together in some areas.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to say we like the holy grail because some things are not going right. Rather, you know we could go on this for hours about what America's declining in, but I think the story could touch on some of that. You know, impossible Not expecting much, you know. Just deal with tribalism in America, which is a very big issue. We need to know what's right or wrong, and some things should not even be debated. Some things shouldn't even be debated. You know, you should, you know it's all. Should we be mean to the person? Who's a Jew or Muslim or Christian? It should be based on character, what they've done, not about you know, the gender or the background. All that right is right or wrong is wrong. Okay, alright, let me stop yammering. I could go on for a while. Um, so, based on the tapes you got for grandpa, what inspired you to write this book?
Speaker 2:it just kept us to yourself, yeah yeah, uh, yes, I could have done that, but I, uh, I, I I saw something in the story and I knew I was a writer, a good writer, a published writer. It wasn't just my grandfather, there were bits and pieces of his life, like you talked about the immigrant, and he did bring TB here, and I get that, I get that. So I'm not trying to be political. But if and he did bring TB here, and I get that, I get that. So I'm not trying to be political. I just want to say that if it wasn't for him, we wouldn't be having the treat. If it wasn't for people like him who experimented with streptomycin I just wrote a story about this medicine, um, I just wrote a story about this. So I know I've talked to doctors about this and they said that was really the game changer for this infectious disease, that it's the largest killer worldwide. So if it wasn't for him playing his party, he saved himself, yes, by taking this experimental treatment, that that uh other, that was a forerunner of other medications that are saving lives today. But he also saved a lot of other people by being that, you know so, guinea pig or, you know, clinical trial patient and taking that chance that it may or may not help him, but it definitely helped a lot of other people since then and he stood up. He was courageous enough to stand up to a gunman with obviously with a gun trying to kill people at a workplace a rehabilitation center for tuberculosis.
Speaker 2:That was a newspaper article in 1958, new York Daily News. I ended up freelancing for them years later. So history repeats itself even in my personal life. But he had what we say chutzpah. He had or I don't know if I'm allowed to say it but balls, courage, bravery and not many people put themselves out there and, you know, even 9-11, when the plane was going in, and people knew that they were saving other lives by giving up their own. There's individual cases of this. So I saw a love story that I thought needed to be told. We have so much divorce in the world. I'm inspired by the romance and the care that one has for another being after in marriage, that committed relationship that you do whatever it takes so that your loved one survives and prospers.
Speaker 2:And my grandmother was a breadwinner at a time when other women were not. They also, you know, probably worked sort of I don't want to say slave labor, but they were poorly paid in New York in the garment district. They were cheap labor and my grandmother did that. She worked in the Manhattan garment district and she had to support her family five children on that and so she was on welfare a little bit. And then the tables turned and my grandfather was there for her at the end. When I grew up it was always my grandmother who had bad legs and my grandfather was the strong one. So tables turned and she did for him, he did for her. And the fact that they died on the same date, a year apart, and they actually were the same age when they died because she was a year older, she went first.
Speaker 2:I just those cassette tapes when I was listening to them. At first I just wrote a column about it. But I knew there I thought there might be something more. Now I was afraid to put it out there. I had never written fiction before and putting yourself out there, you know, for 200 and something pages, and I didn't want it to, I didn't want it to bomb, I wanted it to be accepted. So I pushed for a professional publisher. I figured I as a journalist I ought to get that. I didn't want to subject people to it by self-publishing. So I held out. It worked out.
Speaker 2:I've won six awards for the novel. It's in the Holocaust, the US Holocaust Museum gift shop in New York. I've been. I was in a big book festival here with somebody called Nikki Haley if you've heard her name and a bunch of other Andrew Young, big in Atlanta politics, and John Meacham, robert Oren, jody Picoult, a bunch of other big names. Let's just say Benjamin Netanyahu I think he was live streamed. So I felt good about the achievement in that way. So it was probably worth it and you can't be afraid of putting yourself out there. I think and there's a lot of lessons to be learned from the past that I wanted to share the strength of family surviving the odds, the strength of family surviving the odds.
Speaker 2:He was told he was terminal at 26. He lived till 86. So what was all that like? I think we have the capacity to endure a lot more than we think we do. And despite everything, he had a great outlook on life. Despite everything, he had a great outlook on life. He was just happy to have provided a good life for his family, to know that he was here, he survived, he had a beautiful family life they were allowed to practice their religion. He wouldn't have been able to have that as easily, obviously, with what happened in Europe, had he stayed. So he was thankful, he understood the blessings of life, the simple blessings of life, and that some days are bad and some days are good, and you just hope you have more good days than bad days, but there's really nothing else you can do but keep surviving. So I wanted to share that. I thought there was a message and from reader response it did resonate uh, it does resonate with folks that read the book.
Speaker 1:so um, it does resonate with a lot of stories. Love, love, resilience I think it's a big word. I mean, I think I was putting, even mildly, six decades of enduring that disease and, just like you said, it unlocked the knowledge and how to deal with that. Because if you didn't encounter the disease, how would we be able to cure it? I mean, I can always, and I can bring in the Latino history about not ever encountering diseases. Look what happened to them. They were nearly wiped out. You know, you talk like cold or things like that. Some of that we could, you know, have medications or that take care of that, but centuries ago that was deadly and a lot of people died from it because Europeans already got the exposure to it. The natives didn't. Some of them were wiped out, killed, just based on diseases.
Speaker 1:So the reason why I'm saying this is because, yes, it's bad being exposed to disease, but silver lining is how you can discover cures and treatments against that. I mean, ideal world, I wish no disease exists, but they do so. You know, they're not the only migrant group that brought diseases. A lot of them has, and some bring it even to this day, but it's just not being talked about Because they don't, you know. They got a lack of access to medical care for where they're at, you know, and we got overabundance. I mean, the only thing I gotta criticize this country is we had so much abundance of the vaccine that we threw them out because they was tired, which was wasteful, you know. Yes, disease is bad. I'm not saying disease is good, but the silver lining is, if you encounter it, how else are you going to create the treatment and the cure? And I'll give you a great example If you don't have exposure to it, no knowledge of it, you're as good as dead. So a little graphic, a little morbid, but you get the. You get the point.
Speaker 1:But let's focus some more on happiness because, look, he endured with such a deadly disease for six decades. So that's resilience. I even put that my tag. I'll put resilience, that's another big theme there. And I want to put bravery, because staying up to a gunman practically unarmed, where you could just blow his brains out, and it's an inspirational story and you could dump in. You know other people that's been through similar things. You know, um, and the migrant thing. Well, not as much, but there's a lot of migrants here, mama for migrants, maybe one, two, three, four Migrate, came to this country and altered the trajectory of the family tree significantly Our listeners.
Speaker 1:I'm just going to say one thing before I continue I'll be getting inspired by this. I'll be getting inspired because a lot of us complain just over a scrape at the knee. We act like we're going to die. This man endured six decades of tuberculosis I'm laughing, I can't even say the word right. He endured very deadly. The disease is still deadly today for six decades.
Speaker 1:I think his optimism was a big key to it, because optimism does help, but it's been scientific proof on that. Finally, that's why I've decided to be more happier instead of being cynical. And just, well it happens. And stories like that could definitely alter the way I look at life. So I don't have it as bad as him. For sure, I was born right here.
Speaker 1:I had to I don't know, know run away from let's just use alternative history puerto rico being bombed from the invaded enemy as it come to america. I didn't have to deal with that. So you know, and immigrants do have it very hard, even till today, crossing rivers and all that. Some of them died along the way. So there is relevance to today the story, a lot of relevance, even though, yeah, I happened during World War II.
Speaker 1:There's some reoccurring themes here. That's what I'm trying to get you. I'm trying to connect history to today. Yeah, it's a different group of people, but there's some similar and some of the lost relatives along the way. Sadly, he was lost to those crazy Nazis that killed off the family and the migrants. They've lost that because they try to swim across. The heat killed them, the rivers killed them and Lord knows what else. Once that's been uncovered, still a dangerous journey. That's a similarity right there Some of the details are different. That's a similarity right there some of the details are different and you know I love that. You said that the the dollar was made up, so you cannot accuse her of being a revisionist history. No, you cannot no you cannot.
Speaker 1:You can say that all you want, but she already debunked it preemptively, okay, so you want to put that the comment. I pin it and I'm going to label it stupid, let everybody see it. No, I'm serious, I will. Some people just say, oh, it's a lie. It's a lie, prove it. You're saying it. You got to prove it. I have some comments saying oh, that's a lie. That's a lie. Give me the proof. Articulate People, shut down, stop yelling. Think before you speak. Okay, think before you speak, because the internet, even though it's such a great tool, but sometimes it's used so stupidly, even pisses me off. Sometimes they can be doing better, but, all right, my hyper-masculinity is popping up again.
Speaker 1:Calm down, calm down, let's. Let's focus on ronnie roberts here. We're a happy story. Um, I'm gonna reword this question here. I think that's a little too basic. What do you learn about your family's transcripts and documentation that you were shocked so?
Speaker 2:my grandparents didn't really talk about the Holocaust, so very little. So I didn't realize. I knew my grandparents had big families. I didn't realize how many of them died or where they died. There was a family tree that was kept and was developed and it showed that most of them died in Auschwitz. I might not have known that. It wasn't that far from where my grandfather grew up in Czechoslovakia, which was Hungary Czechoslovakia and then it became the Ukraine. I didn't know when I was writing this novel this is a little twist on your question but I didn't know when I was writing this that history would repeat itself in so many ways. And that is back then my grandfather actually said in the tapes or in my book it does say that Russia likes to fight everyone. It was fighting everyone. Then it likes to war, it likes to make trouble, so Russia is fighting Ukraine.
Speaker 2:The Holocaust is repeating itself in a small way. In Israel it's been related to the Holocaust. This is a smaller scale, but the same philosophy of not valuing life. And I must say, for those who don't believe it happened, the Nazis and Hamas love to record what they did. They have records, they kept records. They want to brag about it. They were proud of it, of what they did. So I'm talking about October 7th massacre in Israel and again, I am not trying to be political, this is just my side of what you know. I'm very connected. I think Jews in America are very connected with what's going on in Israel because they're but, for the grace of God, go I in terms of what he lost in the Holocaust. So there are records kept, and not by Jews by the perpetrators, you know, by the Nazis, by Hamas. They recorded it now and I don't know what they had back then, but they had lots of records. There are lots of records that they kept on all the experiments that they did at the time in Nazi Germany and other details.
Speaker 2:So, you know, make your own decisions, I guess, but I'm sticking with the facts. I am a journalist. I base my information on facts. Argue what you want about that too, but I feel like that was the biggest thing that I learned was how much history has repeated itself. I think we live in a bubble and don't think that what we're experiencing ever happened before. You know, we've got COVID, they had TB, we have these wars that are raging yet again. We have anti-Semitism building. You know rising anti-Semitism on college campuses and elsewhere. We have shootings, we have mass shootings, we have shootings in workplaces. We are still dealing with many of the issues that people back when were dealing with. So, while we benefit from the challenges that went before us benefit from the challenges that went before us we are also dealing with our own challenges that are very similar to what was going on at the time.
Speaker 2:I would argue that they had it a lot rougher than we did. I mean, they had the Great Depression. My grandparents lived through the Great Depression. They weren't paid well, they were, you know, poor. I am not poor, I am middle class. So I am benefiting from all the obstacles that they had to go through so that I could have a better life and I am having a better life, maybe, than they did in a lot of different ways. Thankfully, I'm also healthy. But it's the luck of the draw in life what hand you are dealt and how you deal with it. How you deal with it so, and your whole perspective on life. So that's the long answer to your question.
Speaker 2:I learned much more than just one individual piece of information. I learned almost everything that I didn't know about my grandfather. Beyond, like I said I thought my grandmother was sick. When I knew her she was always having trouble with her legs and complaining, and he but it was, and I knew that she had, that he had been sick, but I I didn't know all the facts until I wouldn't have ever known that he was. I might've heard that he was a test case for streptomycin, but I didn't even know what that meant. I didn't even know what all that was about back then. Basically, they were just my grandparents and grandparents and they weren't as valued as I should have valued them, because they came with a lot of history and a lot of struggle and they were interesting people. I wish I would have taken more time to get to know them, but they might not have told me these details. They wouldn't have told me anything that was about the Holocaust.
Speaker 2:They didn't want to talk about that and they even my mom, she you know, everything's fine, I've got COVID, I've got. I was, I had poison ivy, I had COVID at the same time. Oh, and I got bit in the face and now I've got a rash, but everything is perfectly fine and stop worrying about me. She really doesn't. She just downplays it, she doesn't try to dwell on it. I say, mom, that's a lot to go through. And she goes what are you going to do? What are you going to do? That's what happened. I got to deal with it. So I think it's a. There was a lot to learn in my research for this book.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think outlook is very important. I'm not sure downplaying it. I mean that's just me, that's just personally me, if I'm going to be honest. But it works out, works out. I got to try it instead of just weighing the facts. And all that Because let's go back to the COVID thing real quick.
Speaker 1:I think mainstream media has done such a terrible job with mental health. That's why I stopped saying spread like virus. I stopped using that analogy because of the COVID virus. I stopped saying that because of the pandemic. I said no, no, no. I think that's too soon, too soon. Maybe 30 years later we'll be less sensitive to it. Who knows? I'm not gonna get, I'm not gonna go there as frantic wildfire.
Speaker 1:And I think listening to mainstream sources was not helpful to a lot of um execs, especially reporting the death toll, death toll, death toll. It makes you want to dwell on, it, makes you want to go crazy, especially being locked in. I mean more people could use that perspective really. Oh, you feel right. And I mean, and just real quick, it exposes that America has a real health. I mean it exposes why the American healthcare system is not that great. A lot of people are sick, a lot of people are already obese. This disease could have killed less people if we would have taken care of ourselves and been healthy. America's probably the most unhealthiest nation in the world, maybe as dramatic, I don't know. I think so. That's why so many people die.
Speaker 1:I mean, I'm overweight. I'm working on shedding this extra abundance. I'm going to call it Just for a lack of a better word. Well, I don't want to use a negative word, I'm just lack of the. I just shed the abundance. You know, let it go away, give it to someone who's underweight or something that could use the pounds. But me, no, I got enough. I'm probably like 50 pounds overweight. But still, it's just people. We gotta change our outlook. That's one thing, that's a big thing.
Speaker 1:And forget about the lesson question. There's already a lot of lessons in here. We already talked about resilience, love. You already talked about divorce rates outpacing marriage rates. Yet that's been going on for decades. That that's inspiration, right there. Love, stable marriages still exist, despite it being rarer and rarer and rarer, unfortunately, for so many reasons.
Speaker 1:I think social media is a big thing to play at mainstream and TVs and all of that. We absorb subconsciously these bad ideas and then we act out and we don't understand why People could debate that. But there's more proof popping up with that. I'm happy. Finally, it could be done the scientific way that even people who don't speak spiritual or experience spiritual, they could at least have some understanding of it. Or, if they want to dismiss it, go right ahead. It's your life, your funeral, um, yeah. So there's a lot, a lot of lessons here.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to ask a lesson question because I think there's so many that they can just take away from it and yeah, so you learn quite a lot. I'm, I am not, I'm surprised. I've you know, and one day, once I uncovered my, once I've done my've, I've you know. And one day, once I uncovered my, once I've done my research, I'll tell some genealogy story about what, what they can learn from my, from from my um, interesting family. I'm just going to say it like that. I'm not ready to reveal the, the good, the bad and the ugly. It's a little bit of all. You're getting this, especially if you think, if you think life is bad now.
Speaker 1:We could look back on world war ii, we could look back at civil war, that's. Those were pretty dark times and scary times. To be quite honest, I don't know if I don't know if I'll be able to deal with, if I was born in those times. I don't know. Maybe yes, maybe not. I don't know. I wasn't born so in those times, so I will never know the answer to that. I could be imagined to use the fiction element, but what lies to a young man during world war ii? Will he be a coward? Will he be a great hero? I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 1:But the reason I'm saying this is because I'm going to get to the other question how do you balance the non-fiction in the fiction? You, I'm going to get to the other question how do you balance the non-fiction in the fiction? You already talked a little bit about the fiction part. I made up the, the dialogue, and I'm well. Non-fiction is. You incorporate historical events and all that into it. So how do you balance that? I know it should be tough. I don't know, because you're a journalist. You're also right. So you got. You got the best of both worlds and balancing two great tools can be difficult. How do you do that?
Speaker 2:So the story is based on fact and then I changed all the names and I played around with some of the facts, the names and I played around with some of the facts and I made things much more dramatic than they were. To give an example, at the workplace shooting spree he talked to the gunman. He didn't stop him from shooting. Well, the truth is he still shot somebody, he still. But my, in my, my grandfather went um. That was what the truth was um. But my grandfather went a step further than just talking to the gunman and he stopped it from becoming worse. So he saved people that way too. So I base it on the facts and then, like I said, play with them, expand upon them and I make up dialogue, because I don't know what they said to each other. Now, this story could have easily been biography. It might have actually done better, do better. If it's biography, literary nonfiction it could be called. But I was fearful that some would come back and say, well, that's not exactly how it happened. So I gave it fiction and then I covered myself because I knew that I had some dirty laundry in there for the family, that I didn't want to offend anyone. So if I say it's fiction, then you'll be like, well, that didn't happen, because she says it's fiction. So even though it was, you know, it might be very close to reality. So that's how I balance it.
Speaker 2:I am a journalist, but this is, this is different. This is a challenging branch of my, of my writing. Have I worked for mainstream media? You mentioned mainstream media, so I cringe a little bit. Ethics I hope that that I I try to have strong ethics. I I try to, you know, keep my personal opinions out of my journalism. Um, I keep them out. I kept them out of my novel too to some extent. I mean, and if, if I did, it was in my grandfather's voice or his opinions, but there really wasn't that much of it, except that he was couldn't. You know, they couldn't believe at the time that that things could get that bad in Europe. But I do balance things by labeling one fiction so that I don't get into trouble.
Speaker 2:I do blur the lines of fact and fiction in the novel, but enough so that it has historical reference. But I do keep separate hats from the fiction and the nonfiction. And the other thing is interviews. The cassette tapes were a type of interview. I did interview my uncle, who plays a big role in the novel, and my cousin for the book. So there is some interviews, but otherwise, when I write a story for publication for media which is very healthcare related right now, because both of my publications are that I write for, so that's developed into a specialty for me lately it's based on interviews, facts and interviews. Facts and interviews went into the novel too, but I can't make up. I made up interviews basically to keep the story flowing and and hear, uh, the voices of the people involved.
Speaker 1:So certainly a big challenge for me you know, yep, I'm sure the chance because you know, I think, probably your challenges. Correct me if I'm wrong here, because now I'm going out of the lens. This is bouncy. You're a great writer. You probably had more. Probably the challenge is like options, right, probably. Options in the sense that, okay, I want to do Bouncer, I could go with a nonfiction route here, I could go fiction route there.
Speaker 1:You probably have so many ideas. It's not because oh, I'm stumped I got a writer's block. I think, personally, it's the opposite. You have a strong writing background. Some authors have said I still get a writer's block where I can't come up with anything. Me, I'm not going to guess that in your case, you got so much reference materials and all that. It's just what ideas you want to execute. I guess Me. I don't know if I could relate to that. I probably wrote short stories at most. Personally, I think I'm happy that you shared it. I mean, look, you have even big names even sharing your story or even being at the event. So that's incredible. That shows the level of receptability that we still have despite the rise of anti-Semitism in a global scale. So there's still hope. Thank God for that. There's still hope Because if the whole world goes the anti-Semitism route, pre-world War II, going with the Adolf Hitler slash Hamas narrative, it'll be a lot of scary place, and that's just a starting point.
Speaker 1:Who's going to be next once they're done with the Jews? Maybe the Christians, maybe a few others, but you know, I said no just because they start with one group. No, no, no, it's not going to end there. They're not going gonna be done until they wipe. They wipe them out, and maybe even then they'll start killing each other. Who knows? You know the the bloodlust of a psychopath is probably insatiable. So that's all I'm gonna say about. So now, that's a starting point. I mean, you know, the Holocaust focused on the Jews, but Jews weren't the only ones killed. There were so many non-Jews that were killed as well, I'm sure Germans that tried to fight Adolf Hitler openly. Well, go right in there. Go right in there, jew sympathizer, go in there. You filth, kill them off. You know, disabled, because they were weak and useless. Now let the gas chamber clean them out. So it's sad, so it's not just a Jew thing. That's the starting point, that's the tip of the iceberg, and once you go deeper, deeper, it'll be other groups of people that they consider apostate or evil to their ideology.
Speaker 1:Okay, I didn't say, you know, muslim people or palestinian people, just don't distinction. I just criticize only groups, nazis I didn't say germans because they were. You know german people who would agree with this, palestinian people I'm sure palestining people don't agree with this either, but sadly they're the ones that you know. They deal with the genocide right now as we speak a lot of women and children killed more than the intended target, much more astronomically. I cannot exaggerate that, which is sad.
Speaker 1:And I did ask one person, one person who was very smart, and he's a very smart man in general, one of my, I guess so they DW Duke. He didn't really answer the question Can the IDF go to a more precise strike? Can the IDF go to a more precise strike, like with the US? They will solve the Latin we just went to, we sneaked to his house, the citizen, just bombing the tunnels, bombing everything. You know I said no, israel got a right to defend itself.
Speaker 1:I never, I never criticized that, you know. And I think more countries could practice that warfare too. And you know America and America could practice that warfare too. You know, america, in america, we are, we are not blameless on this either. We've done reckless things as well bombing, killing many innocent people so we should not have the moral high ground. I think most countries can't. The reason why I'm saying this is because, look, war is getting ugly and recently I've learned that syria has gotten real ugly again with the war. You know, people's not talking about that as much, and America's involved with that Russia.
Speaker 1:The war is getting hot and if you already said the Ukraine war, let's see what Donald Trump's going to do with that, because it's going to go on a different trajectory. Is he going to capitulate to Putin or would it compromise that? Okay, ukraine loses these territories, but they'll gain NATO membership. He's in a tough spot. Whether you like him or not, that's irrelevant, I don't care about that. I hate Trump. Oh, I love Trump, that doesn't matter. Okay, stop, you got to stop this love-hate thing. Let's see what he's going to do as a leader. Okay, let's see if it's going to be, you know, because it's a tough one. And let's see if he's going to even solve the Israeli-Hamas war.
Speaker 1:And China's watching. They want to invade Taiwan very badly, they want to and they're seeing. Okay, if aggressors can be awarded, tell me to jump in. Take that little island. Okay, here's the thing about people. I wish I didn't have to talk about this. I wish I didn't, but I have to think about the war.
Speaker 1:War thing is very, very important and that relates to our book. It's not just anti-Semitism and all that. That's part of it. Also the war, immigrants, that's a part of also the war immigrants. There's a lot of themes here, even love, which I don't really talk about a lot.
Speaker 1:The reason I talk about it now? Because the divorce rates and back then it was me I was also part of I was too cynical and negative. I just saw the worst in everything. You know, no matter what you do, every solution you have, I come up with a new problem. You know, part of it was me too, um, which you know it's not easy to admit, but you want to move forward. Growth is painful. Growth is painful, especially if you want to grow. Growth is sometimes very painful, all right, so I'm just gonna say it like that. So I'm already kind of answering the lessons thing because, viewers, I want you to grasp what's important.
Speaker 1:All right, and this could be applied to a lot of people. Really, this is not exclusively a Jewish thing. You know this this person could have been a Latino immigrant. Latino immigrant could have done that. Maybe even an Arab. Maybe he might laugh at that one, maybe he scoffed that one off, you know, or you know? Yeah, there's going to be some cultural differences, geographical differences, but I'm talking about the big themes here, the big themes, and we're losing track. America's lost track because cultural differences, geographical differences, but I'm talking about the big themes here, the big themes, and we are losing track. America has lost track because we are not as decisive at fighting for freedom like we used to be. I'm going to say this right now. Just one thing, and I'm going to let Ronnie talk. I feel like I'm talking a lot here.
Speaker 1:My opinion of the Ukraine war has changed. I was more skeptical about it. But, abilene, maybe it's too late. I understand why I'm more sympathetic towards it now, because General debunked my misunderstandings and my lack of information. A very credible general. I said okay, that makes sense. Finally, someone will make sense of this war. Instead of just oh, we're just going to keep giving money, money, money without a tangible goal.
Speaker 1:I don't like that part. The corruption of the military industrial complex. I don't like that part. That's what made me skeptical. But you know, we should not be awarding bullies.
Speaker 1:Hitler World War II, a very big bully, that's just putting him out. He was just an evil, sadistic dictator. That's more of a proper term. Now we got Putin to a small degree, trying to restore, you know, the Soviet Union. I believe that now more than ever he was continuing to attack countries that are not part of NATO. And who knows, maybe he conquers all that. He might have to go after NATO. We'll see. I don't know, I'm just predicting here, but this would cause these stories to happen, these wars. It's not just her story. Even the other two guests. They had wars as well.
Speaker 1:World War II I had to study Hungary Because I had lack of knowledge about Hungary's perspective of that war. I looked at it. It was very bloody, it was horrendous. People were fighting among each other. It was ugh. They had it hard too. But the American perspective is only like these big countries, only the big players. Hungary is a small player, but the impact of World War II has affected them just as much, if not probably even more. Okay, czech Republic, great impact.
Speaker 1:Just because we don't know or we don't pay attention doesn't mean they haven't suffered, or it's not true. They have suffered. Okay, I know I like to be joking, throwing, you know, smart-ass jokes, even say something crazy just for cheap laughs. But this is a serious, serious topic and I have to be a little more reserved and be not careful. Respectful. Respectful of this Because, oh well, you could rightfully say I'm a psychopath and all that. You'll be correct. I'm mentally ill, I need help, you'll be correct. I'll say yeah. So anything you want to add for the lessons before we do the shameless plugin and all that good stuff.
Speaker 2:Wow, that was a lot. I don't want to comment on the wars and why people fight, and some of it is land and some of it is just to gain power and some of it is just the other and not accepting the other. Uh so, um, and, and it is a sad situation that people that the innocents have to be, um, that the innocents are in the way that are the innocents, are either used as shields or, um, they haven't, they can't find a way out, um, as they. They had struggles in Europe finding a way out. It was too late. It was too late, or um late, or they were stopped. They couldn't get to freedom because they were persecuted, so there was no way out. So I think there's no way out in some situations. Even if you want to flee, you'll be stopped by those in power. So that's all I can say about that. But the lessons of the book are that of course history repeats itself. But the simple pleasures of life, to appreciate everything, to appreciate the small blessings that you're given and to learn to conquer the obstacles in your way health, financial loss of family how do you move on? How can you still find the silver lining in misfortune, which is my book is Hands of Gold how to Find One Man's Quest for Silver Lining in Misfortune. When you get dealt a bad hand, you've got two options you can let it destroy you or you can fight to destroy it, to destroy it, to overcome the obstacle and figure out a way to move beyond.
Speaker 2:We had COVID. Yes, we did. We did have COVID, but we have survived COVID. We lost a lot of people along the way. It is unfortunate, but we did gain some perspective on vaccines, however you might feel about that, and we learned a lot of lessons. I think at one point we didn't talk to people, we were afraid to even almost look at people. We spent time indoors with our families and we learned to appreciate the simple pleasures of having a nice house, of having four walls over you, which other people don't have, good health, being able to survive this. If you had COVID being able to get yourself through it, experience it, come out on the other side and appreciate your health a little bit more.
Speaker 2:So I think that, despite everything, it really comes back to love, family commitment, love family commitment and what your options are to wither away or to survive, and I hope that people that read the book, readers of the book walk away inspired. Walk away with new perspectives on their own life. Find a way to make it relevant to their own life, because there are a lot of characters in the book that people relate to, regardless of where they're from. And, like you said, other people have been persecuted. You know Blacks right now the immigration is targeting those who come from different countries and you know LGBTQ and other.
Speaker 2:So if you are different, maybe my feeling is, if you're different, congratulations. You stand out from the crowd. You don't have to be like everyone else. You can have your own personality. You don't have to be a minion, you don't have to follow the cows. You can be somebody different. So figure out what it is that you're going to leave to the world. Figure out whatever lessons you want to impart to the world, and I hope you find all of that in hands of gold. I hope you find a little bit of yourself and your own motivation to live your best life and value the important things in the world.
Speaker 1:That was a very, very beautiful message. I gotta give credit when credit is due. Look, that's the most inclusive, you know. You know I like using quote unquote, woke terminologies. It doesn't get any more inclusive than that. So don't feel ashamed. And she even used your initials. I just call lgbtq plus. I'm not giving them any more letters than that, because it gets crazy from there and you're gonna lose me. You're gonna lose me. Just lgbtq plus for me personally. This is just me personally. Everybody can have their own standard. You could you put the 20 trillion letters that they got. It's a sprawl, by the day. I just put plus. Plus should include all the other stuff that it can be mentioned. I agree with that.
Speaker 1:Yep, being different, your individuality, is your power, and I'm proud to say that. Because I'm anti-Normie, I'm almost going to be an odd supremacist. No, I'm kidding. If they're not going to go there, no, that's just me turning evil right there. See, got to be careful right there, right there. Gotta be self-aware.
Speaker 1:Not, I am radically anti-normal. Let's just say that I like you normal people. You keep being normal, keep making me shine. Okay, stay normal. Stay normal for my benefit, all right, but, but no, but, all seriousness. Embrace your individuality is what makes you different, what makes you shine. See now my little bit of humor weird humor is kicking in there. Because look, you matter. You were born for a reason. Figure it out. Figure it out. Don't let social media tell you. Don't let mainstream media tell you, just go with your spirit. You figure it out. Don't let social media tell you. Don't let mainstream media tell you, just go with your spirit. You figure it out. Okay, because I think if you do introspection, you will get some answers.
Speaker 1:I was doing walking exercise. Meditate something or something. That intuition Find it and your life can change. I could can change. Catch myself right there. Your life can change. Okay, I said this on the podcast you matter is the reason why you're here. You are not an accident. No matter what anybody else tells you, you have a purpose.
Speaker 1:Purpose, I would say, is one key to Significantly Lowering depression and loneliness. Find what that is Okay. That's what she's saying. And you know what? I agree If you get 100%, get 1,000%, probably infinity percent, because I personally remember what life was like without purpose and all that. It was not pretty and I came and I overcame depression. That it was not pretty and I came and I overcame depression not as rough as that man with the six decades of endurance, tuberculosis but these people are still living depression for almost as long as that, because they keep going through the same cycle of stagnation, negativity. Just to put it simple find your purpose, pursue it bravely, even make sure you're uncomfortable. I know the uncomfortability pushes you away, but you know what that's a hurdle you're going to have to overcome if you want a level up in your life. Okay, that's all I'm going to say. Alright, so I don't need to talk about the lessons, because there's a lot. You already gave a lot of examples of that, unless you want to add one more.
Speaker 2:I think I covered it Okay. But just love each other and avoid all the hatred. But also, when you see an opportunity to make a difference, take a chance, I guess, on it. Don't let the voices in your head hold you back from achieving whatever dreams it is that you want to achieve. I certainly understand being depressed when I lost my first publisher after 20 years of searching for a professional publisher. I was pretty depressed and I also lost my job about more than a year ago, a full-time job. But I overcame it and in terms of the book, I had worked with a publisher for two years after trying so hard to find one, and six months later I got another publisher who took me to the finish line and has been very supportive and even more supportive than the first publisher. So you've got to be patient in life to get what you want a little. But you know, just don't throw away your dream, don't be too afraid to just put yourself out there and keep trying, keep trying. And in terms of my job, six months later no, probably less than that, but let's just say four or six months later I'm writing again for publication and I'm actually being asked to interview for the same, for the same publication, again in a different form. So it wasn't me.
Speaker 2:I could be depressed about the sock in the stomach from feeling like it was me or that. What did I do wrong? How come I was cut versus somebody else? A lot of times it's just for financial, but I would say that I found my way back. I found what worked for me and right now I'm in so much demand that I'm having a hard time keeping up so many people. I'm very proud of it. It's hard to see it exactly, but I was at a low and now I'm at a high and you can find your way out of the tunnel that exists. I can't speak to everyone about everyone's situation, but I will tell you that it was very depressing and I was very down on myself, and I still get very down on myself. But I need to remind myself that I am good at what I do and keep pushing towards the finish line. Keep pushing towards my goals. Figure out what my goals are, keep pushing towards them and never give up. Never give up on your dreams. Never give up.
Speaker 1:Never give up on your dreams. Yeah, you hear that. This is coming from an award-winning journalist, accomplished person. Big events, rejection it's going to happen to all of us, no matter what level of success you are. The key is what I learned and I learned this late because I used to be successful at everything my first shot thinking it was a bad thing for me. Once I started getting rejection and failure, I I took it hard, I took it very personal. How you handle rejection is key.
Speaker 1:Rejection is not the end, just means go in another direction and some cases, certain cases like ronnie, they'll ask you back. That was not guaranteed disclaimer. But rejection just means just move to the next direction. It could be next chapter. It's not the end. It's not you're a failure.
Speaker 1:It didn't work out, it wasn't meant to be and that's why we didn't stop having this mindset that, oh, I want success to look like this. Certain way, you're sending yourself up for failure. Okay, that's what I'm going to say about that. You know I want to look like this. You know, nice house and all that. No, it probably could be better than what you're imagining. The oven trust.
Speaker 1:The process is something I'm currently learning. By the way, I'm not going to be. I'm not going to pretend to have all the answers. I have my head high, I know everything. No, no, I could do that, but you'll know I'll be lying. You just go to my previous episode and that's why I want to be held to account. I might be held to account, being called out, it's okay. But remember, rejection just means another direction and you'll be accepted to somewhere that's even better. And you know, you gotta learn how to expect the unexpected, because life will throw some curveballs. It will throw some curveballs and prepare for it.
Speaker 1:Handling rejection is key. Try not to take it personally. I know it's easier said than done. Just go in another direction, alright, just you matter. You're gonna get busy. I go through obstacles and hurdles.
Speaker 1:It's like her grandfather. He went through a hell of a lot. He had a very positive mindset me. I think I would have been a miserable, grumpy person by now. Sorry, I don't want to deal with this crap anymore. Leave, leave me alone. Why do I got to suffer more? That would be average person, really. Why me? Why me? No, he kept that. I understand him being negative. I would say you know, I sympathize with him if he would have been a negative person, but no, he kept the bright outlook. He had a lot of reasons to be legitimately depressed A lot, but the fact that he chooses to have a positive outlook just speaks volumes of his character and resilience.
Speaker 1:And we need more stories. Let's do that shameless plug. She's been advertising that lovely book right behind her, that Hands of Gold. Now I get what she means by that. It was a lot of gold quality lessons. It ain't just literal. Okay, golden perspective, golden resilience, okay, that's just to name a few, despite the OK that's that was happening in his time and the chaos that we are going through in our time.
Speaker 1:Look, I know it's stop. Just stop listening to social media algorithm. If you think it's the key to the algorithm you like. Negative chaos and drama is going to keep giving you negative chaos and drama. That's what algorithm does. So be mindful of your algorithm. You look more at positive educational things. It's going to give you more positive educational things.
Speaker 1:You have some influence over the algorithm and algorithms can throw some curveballs from time to time. Be careful of that as well. This is for you hyper social media users especially. I'm kind of one of them. I use social media, so I know from experience. I use social media, so I know it from experience. I have more positive, productive things because I use the algorithm to my advantage. It's going by based on what you're like and your search history, your like history. That's what it's going by. So if you change that, it's going to slowly change. It's not just I don't know, this is going to sound a little offensive I have a bunch of men and women showing off their parts in a very suggestive manner. You start watching more positive things, you're going to get more positive things and those kind of stuff is going to be withering away. Just give it time. It depends on the algorithm. Probably a couple of days you're going to notice a change.
Speaker 1:Okay, and similar thing to um, whatever you watch on tv or smart tv at this case pay attention to what you watch. Does it make you paranoid because you watch too much horror films or you don't trust people? You watch too much drama, but that does impact us in the subconscious level. That's why we act the way we act. We don't know why. And when it comes to smartphone, don't have it near you during the very early and the very end of the days. This is being fried, especially the dopamine receptors fried, okay, and I was one of them I know I'm talking about here. But that aside, I'm not saying that's a habit. It's a good tool, just during certain parts of the day. Just put time away from it, it will change, you know. You can feel free to interrupt me, ron. Feel free to interrupt me.
Speaker 2:I want to give you your moments as you're giving me mine. I don't want to interrupt. I interrupt too much.
Speaker 1:But I already said enough. I already said enough. For sure, I don't feel like I want to say enough, but this time I definitely did. So. Let's just get that book. Hands of Gold is going to put a link to it. Our website, the social medias, that standard practice here, all those links is going to be in the description. Okay, and let's see. The website is RonnieRobbinscom. Simple, if you know her name, you type that com. Anything else you want to add before I wrap this up?
Speaker 2:Just. The book is available on Amazon and everywhere you buy your books. I hope that you support me. It's it makes a great holiday gift or or a gift for anyone on your shopping list now or birthdays. And you know, give some inspiration to people and write me a review and reach out to me if you want to, about what you think about the book or the podcast or anything else. I'm available all over social media and also my email should probably be on my website. Everything that you can possibly want to know about the book, about me, about the background and book club questions. I am available for Zooming and coming to your book club, your book club, different women's clubs, sometimes men's clubs. I do it all, and so I invite you to reach out to me and I hope that you'll.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to get more hands of gold in golden hands, so whatever you can do to pass that along, I think that you'll enjoy the book and it's written by a professional journalist for some 37 years now. So but maybe tell somebody about the book. I appreciate any support and I like to hear from readers, so you know, it's the nicest thing to talk to readers and to know that I didn't just put this out there, but there are real people that are enjoying and being inspired by my words that I studied so hard to do and worked so hard on this book for so long. I hope that that's. My fulfillment is hearing from the readers. So I welcome comments and I would hope that you might take a look and decide whether it's for you or for gifts for your family too, and love one another. That's the important thing, Regardless. Just stop hating, Just love. It would make the world a much better place.
Speaker 1:Yeah for sure, Love is very important. We need more men to say that as well, because I don't think I hear that enough for that gender. Yeah, I hear it for some guys, but, man, we could pick it up. Come on, we could pick it up. We could pick up the pace on that one. I can say that confidently. Women, they've been saying that for since old days. There's a lot of documents on that. Men, we could pick that up a bit. They could pick that up a bit. Besides the preachers and social media influences, we could pick that up. All right, guys, that's all I'm going to say about that. So, from whenever you listen to this podcast because I know my audience is somewhat international, especially, I thank you, India. You have a blessed day, afternoon or night.
Speaker 2:Thanks for watching.
