7B2-Marketing Warfare, Made Practical with Lee Pepper

We trade empty hype for hard strategy with Lee Pepper, a veteran and executive who translates military models into clear moves for marketers and leaders. From fighting bureaucracy to escaping bad incentives, we share tools to pivot fast, protect budgets, and win.

• military decision models applied to marketing
• agility over tradition and ritual
• data-led persuasion and attribution
• zero-click search and AI-driven disruption
• incentive design and bonus conflicts
• commander’s intent and empowered teams
• cognitive bias and Dunning Kruger at work
• force multiplication and focused execution
• resilience, mindset, and lifelong learning
• where to find the book and connect with Lee
• veterans treatment court mentoring opportunities

Follow Lee Pepper at ...

His Website

https://neveroutmatchedbook.com/

TED Talk

TEDx Ocala 

TikTok

https://www.tiktok.com/@lee.pepper?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc

LinkedIn

https://www.linkedin.com/in/leepepper/

Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/theleepepper/

Chapters

• 0:00 Opening, Book Reveal, Why It Matters
• 3:23 Author’s Mission: Translating Military To Business
• 6:00 Pivot Or Perish: Agility Over Tradition
• 10:45 AI Disruption And The New Media Landscape
• 16:30 Bureaucracy Vs Decision Making
• 20:46 Case Studies: Blockbuster, Kodak, Netflix
• 26:20 Data As The Bad Guy: How To Persuade
• 30:20 Zero-Click Search And SEO Reality
• 34:20 Empowering Teams With Commander’s Intent
• 39:00 Cognitive Bias And Dunning Kruger In Marketing
• 44:10 Specialization Matters: IT, Security, And Marketing
• 48:20 Never Outmatched: Mindset And Resilience
• 53:00 Cloud Outages, Centralization, And Risk
• 57:20 Autonomy, Waymo, And Real-World Readiness

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:09

Welcome everyone to Politically High Tech with your host Elias. I have a newcomer here, a newcomer who's mixed who can mix two things together. It'll make sense. If you think, but don't think too hard, okay? I don't want you to get a migrated headache before I even start the show. All right. And look, and this author here, okay, he's a successful, he's not just an author. He's you know, he's a veteran, he's a successful businessman, all right? And we are gonna learn, you know, even though look, I could be sometimes I'm a critic, okay? Not because I want to be disrespectful, it's because I could kind of see where certain people could just say, oh, oh, this one, uh this book might be niche because it's so military. I said, Well, if you read the book and give it a darn chance, trust me, he's met you there. He got models, okay, that a normal person, let me try to be nice, no person could adapt, okay, if you're willing to, okay. That's the thing. If you want to do better, level up your career. I will just say, look, listen, and this, even though this book has come out several months ago. Yeah, two months, two and a half months ago at this point. Listen, this book here, this lovely book here, bro. Look at that. Beginner mistake, and I've been doing this for five years. Shame on me for not getting this right. I normally don't promote the book this quick, but look, this never out. Man, why did you just get to the point, man?

SPEAKER_00: 1:42

I love it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:44

Yeah, you know, and well, you know what's funny. That was one of my feedback because sometimes you told my funny monologues are irrelevant, some people didn't like them, and some people kind of liked them. I was like, okay, I'm just getting straight to the point. Look, military strategies to lead, innovate, and win in a modern marketing battle. And you know what? Some of their mindset, actually a good chunk of their mindset could be helpful. Because let's be clear, modern marketing, even just modern whatever, is full of noise and so full of distraction that you need a military discipline, okay? Just uh skip through all the noise and not hear like the gossip, the misinformation, and what have you. So I when I was reading this book, at first I thought I wasn't gonna be interested, but the more I read, I'm gonna be honest, the more hooked I said, oh, this this makes sense already. And since I'm a history buff, um, they got a lot of references to yeah, especially military history, and it's good stuff. I mean, I know some of you are not history buffs, you'll say, uh, nerd, what's wrong with you reading that? Well, you know what? That's your problem, that's your loss. Actually, it's good to know your history, because look, we're repeating some of the egregious mistakes for not learning your history, okay? So I laugh at you for being ignorant. Yes, I'm a nerd with a mouth, and I'm a militant nerd at that because I'm ready to fight too if I have to. All right, but anyways, you're not here for the violence, you're not here for me mansplaining here. Let's welcome this new guest here. Very simple name, Lee Pepper. Don't get too hungry with the last name, okay? Just don't get too hungry with that. So, Lee, what do you want the listeners and the viewers to know about?

SPEAKER_00: 3:15

Thank you so much, Elias. I'm I'm so excited that we finally got connected and I could join, you know, you and your your audience tonight. I think the the the biggest reason to cut to the chase of why I wrote this book is that, you know, less than 1% of our population will have the opportunity to serve in the military. And I don't say that as a judgment, it's just where we are with an all-volunteer army. And there are so many things that I personally learned when I was a young man and enlisted that I wanted to share with a bigger audience because you don't have to have served to understand some of these strategies that I've translated into mental models. And there were so many people on my teams over the years that didn't serve that really, maybe they loved history, maybe they loved the way they explained things, but they really loved the strategies as I explained it. And it helped, I think, in their in their careers too, give them some armor when they were going in to talk to the finance or the accounting team or their CEO or their boss was giving them a hard time. And when they can translate their daily actions into an overall strategy, it really kind of helped elevate their game and also, you know, protected their budgets and protected their team. So that was ultimately why I spent the time to write the book. Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 4:27

And I just introduced you, so you're a you really answer what inspired. I gotta look at that. So I was super efficient right there. Hey, like, hey, it could go into Twine. I don't mind that. I go with the flow. You know, I this is one thing I want to say about this podcast. I don't instruct, I don't tell the guests how to talk. I want them to bring themselves. Okay, you just answer it's naturally. It's gonna be that's instruction to that's to all the guests. How do you want me to answer? How do you want me to do this? Look, I'll just give you the audiences, you do what's best. That's no, I don't believe in all Lee. I want you to, uh Lee Pepper, I want you to sound like a Harvard professor who never had military experience. Yeah, awkward this conversation couldn't be. I'm sure you could pull it off, but if you could pick up the you know, the cool kids call vibes, you know, the the feeling, the energy, if you will, it's gonna be awkward. You're gonna feel something is off, right? You might not be able to put your finger on it, some of you, or that some of you a lot, or some of you are like me that can sometimes articulate it. I was like, I don't know. Some of our lead paper's not sound right here. He's not phony, but I'm just gonna give you a hypothetical here. You know, I don't my point is I don't like to attract guess how I just give this, I just give information, this is where we're gonna be done, and then you apply it to what's your natural.

SPEAKER_00: 5:42

I think that ties in alliance with listen, a lot of traditional media and traditional marketing is gone. And if you were not somebody that was open to pivoting, open to you know, changing the way you've done things, you kind of got left behind. And that's one of the things I love about the podcast and the folks that listen to podcasts because they're not so stuck in doing things in a traditional way. And, you know, when you think about some of the things I talk about in the book, the companies that won were ones that were open to pivoting, open to changing the way they do things. And this is something that I learned very early in the military. A lot of people think the military is very structured, and there is structure around training and documentation, and um, and that's really important. But when you're in the heat of the moment, when you're in a training exercise, or if you're in the middle of a battle, guess what? You have to make decisions, and sometimes you have to pivot, you have to change direction, or you get overrun or worse. Same thing in business. Like you gotta be willing to embrace new ways of doing things. And I I think that's at the heart of what you're doing, you know, with with your series too.

SPEAKER_01: 6:44

Oh, yeah. Off uh spoiler alert, this is a bonus side series. Yep, season seven's already done at this point. Hey, this is one of your little surprises here during your Thanksgiving-ish. If you celebrate it, uh well, I'm certainly gonna celebrate it, or you decide to go crazy shop on Black Friday. Maybe you calm down, or or if you're too hyped up, just censor yourself here because Thanksgiving is more for a normally, I'll say pretty calm holiday, unless you're arcu politics. Let's be real. That's what spikes things up. Or if it's Black Friday, oh well, you if you do it the traditional way, you run to the store, bump a bunch of people, get your so-called best deal of the year, and let's be let's be honest, they're actually not. You get scammed on that. Not scammed, but it's unethical. I was gonna say it's unethical, sadly legal, but it's still unethical, nonetheless. You sometimes get the best deals, and you know it's ironic, January is one of the months where you get some of the best deals. But that's what I've learned as an informed consumer. But I don't want to derail this conversation too much. But when you know, when you're doing your thing, when you're centered, put a you know, put your earbuds, especially this is you want to use the audio version, that'll be best for that. You know, I even know I prefer some of you to do video, but I cannot force you, I cannot pull a gun through the screen and force you to watch on video. So hey, I do both. So we just want to listen, and I realize that my listening audience is growing even more than my visual ones, but I'm still gonna do video because I just refuse to go backwards on that one because look, the media landscape is constantly changing. I mean, especially now with AI changes norm. If you're stuck, forget it, you're gonna be behind. That that's all I'm gonna say. This is someone who's been studying AI with many deaths for a couple of years now, and that's one of the things I've seen. Disruption at a speed as unprecedented, okay? So that's all I'm gonna say about that. Um, because I want to make sure you're learning some business strategies here. All right. I'm not the expert. I'm the song who just brings someone here just to give you the good stuff, okay? About how about how you could, you know, again, level up your game, that's how I call it, or eventually become you, or you can actually outmatch your people, outmatch your superiors. Hey, I was gonna say, you know, you're never gonna be outmatched, but you're gonna be outmatching others, okay? And yeah, no, this stuff here is good. Some of us learn how to implement, you know, I'm a little comfortable because normally I'm used to this is one of my weaknesses. I'm used to confirming or just get uh approval through writing, and sometimes you don't got time for that. So that's one of that's one of my crooked crutches, but that's helping me out with that. Because look, when things uh I I I'm not a fan of bureaucracy, I'm gonna be honest. It really stifles creativity, even productivity. Yeah, it's meant to protect certain things, but sometimes it's just like you're the heat in the moment, you got a very tight dent line, you gotta get it.

SPEAKER_00: 9:42

Well, an alliance, I I just wanted to say, you know, when you said the word bureaucracy, it really resonated with me because you know, I I just did a TED talk and one of my slides, I talk about what is the enemy of decision making. And to me, the enemy of decision making is status quo, also known as bureaucracy. And a lot of times when you're in business or you're a young leader or even you know, a worker bee, you know, all of a sudden you get hassled by this status quo and this bureaucracy, and it'll wear name tags like we've always done it this way, you know, or it'll, or it'll be, you know, predictability. And it's like none of that is true. And like that's the biggest thing you can do is to, is to make decisions and fight that urge to get stuck in a bureaucracy. And when I worked my, you know, my first job out of out of school, I had the opportunity to work for Ross Pro. And he used to have a saying, you know, he would he would go around and he would say, you know, you know, bureaucracy, it's like a snake. And you know what you do with snakes, you kill them. And so he was real big about eliminating bureaucracy from his his organizations and from his companies. And it's something that I learned as a young man that to make sure that I make sure my teams are armed so that they can actually do work and not get stuck in bureaucracy.

SPEAKER_01: 10:51

You know what? I like that. He should have been president. Why are you voters and vote for him? Let's go back and let me guilt trip you, let me guilt trip y'all. Well, well, I was a baby when he ran. So unless they want to legally, I don't know, put my scribble scrabble on the vote thing. Okay, Russ Perot, like that, that oh no, no, no. I'm not I don't want you to commit a crime. Relax, I don't want you to commit a crime. No, I was a baby, I couldn't, I couldn't vote. And you know, you know, you know, I actually resonate with that because that's my that's my personal big issue. I'm working in business. Oh, do you guys do all this bureaucratic stuff? You could at least chop half of half of this or I mean come come on. It does stifle productivity. I mean, look, I mean, what are what are examples of those who stuck to status quo and they got screwed? Let's name a few of them. Blockbuster, Kodak. Remember, could these be big? These were the big, big giant players. They're either obliterated or they downsize so much. There's one store in there. Well, and that and I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00: 11:50

I'm so glad you brought that up because I've got those examples in my book. And you know, everybody knows Netflix, obviously. And it's crazy to think that Blockbuster had the chance to buy Netflix for$50 million and they turned it down. And it's a great lesson in misaligned incentives and not having a team that can that can think and make decisions and pivot. And and Netflix has done such an amazing job of lies because you know they their whole innovation was, oh, we're gonna mail you DVDs. And then they pivoted again and got into streaming. And then they pivoted again and got into developing their own, became their own studio. So I mean, they've got a culture that is always like, we are not gonna get stuck in the status quo. Like that's the kind of company, if you can be fortunate enough to work for that you that your career is just gonna soar because you're always innovating, you know, and and that's I think what a lot of companies are stuck in. They don't know how to innovate. It's probably because they're stifling their young people that want to innovate. They've they've got this hierarchy, this bureaucracy, this status quo that doesn't allow the innovation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 12:54

Absolutely. And another thing about Netflix, they're developing even games now. Yeah, video games. So you're you know, and this is a common link, and let me even add Amazon, a slightly more established example. They have that insatiable hunger to innovate. You know, that's what I'm seeing here. You know, IBM, Microsoft, you're all great, but if maybe if you get expand a little bit out of the technology a little bit, I know it's risky. I'm not saying not, you know, not all innovations can succeed. I would say for those who keep on trying, throwing plan A, plan B, and C not staying stuck on failure, you know, and you know, I bring up these examples because look, they were once great. I mean, there were Blockbuster was such a huge name, but now who knows Blockbuster? Maybe a few people in Oregon, that's it. And those who think about it in the past, oh yo, let me bring in nostalgia. It would be a little nice, okay, fine. The nostalgia, you know, nostalgic millennials. Uh well, me, I'm only I'm nostalgic, but I don't really care for Blockbuster. They they got taken down and they deserved it. And just like you said, they had an opportunity, a gold out to almost hand it to them to buy Netflix.

SPEAKER_00: 14:01

It's probably we're probably lucky. We're probably lucky they didn't buy them because they probably their barcodes are my disciples. Ah, you know, the future Netflix. But you know, one of the things, Elias, that I uh in my TED talk, I talk about the yellow pages, you know, and for a lot of your listeners, they may have heard of the yellow pages, they may not know about the yellow pages. But when I first got to Foundations Recovery Network, which was this is going back to 2008, I was their first chief information officer. And back then the CIOs controlled digital marketing. And so that was that was how I kind of pivoted more into marketing was through that. And our number one line item in our budget for marketing was the yellow pages. And it was a fight. Like I really had to fight our C-suite about moving off of yellow pages and going into going into digital marketing, more SCO and paid search. And I used these military principles to to kind of to to blast open those doors against the status quo because they were so stuck. They just they didn't understand. They they just saw, oh, people are always gonna turn to the yellow pages. And now I I when I did my TED talk, I I brought a yellow pages with me on stage and I had to go get it on eBay. That's where I that's where I bought you know a 15-year-old copy of the yellow pages. But I'll tell you, back then it was it was a big argument. I wasn't sure for a moment if I was even gonna stay stick around at that company because they were so stuck. But that's why I wrote the book. I mean, I used this military strategy called force multiplication, and I started explaining, no, this is how we're gonna pivot away from the yellow pages. And it just opened up, opened up my world, and I kind of just dove in and just kind of kept on. And I was making notes all these years about these different strategies, and that's kind of what you know, a couple years ago I decided, okay, I'm gonna write this book, and and and that was kind of the genesis of it.

SPEAKER_01: 15:49

You know what that is, you know, that gives me to a follow-up question, a really good one as we talked. How can people challenge the status quo without, of course, being belligerent? Yeah, of course, while we strategic.

SPEAKER_00: 16:07

I think my experience has always been other leaders, data workers, be the bad because you know, a lot of times when you're when I was challenging the yellow pages, guess what? There was a yellow pages consultant. So I'm there arguing that we're gonna make a move in our marketing. Well, he's gonna be out of a job. So it was real personal, you know, and there were relationships involved, you know, going back many years. So I let the data be the bad guy. So we set up call tracking, which was kind of a new thing back then. Uh, we set up call tracking, and all of a sudden I was just creating these reports that showed where our leads were coming, our phone calls and our leads. And guess what? The yellow page was only about 10%. And that started the conversation instead of me just attacking because I didn't like it or because I'm trying to be trendy or FOMO. No, I had some data, and that made the transition a lot easier. That we're like, you know what? We need to start, we need to start moving. And so I think when you're thinking about AI, I think we're in the same situation for young leaders and young marketers because there's this inflection point. How much of your budget do you move? How do you start, you know, how much of your time? And if if you're not looking at it now, it's going to be too late in a couple of years. So you have to do it. And so the the biggest thing you can do is to get some data and we have some interesting data points. I mean, you know, we can start to see, especially with search engine optimization, something I work in every day. I mean, this whole zero-click universe, I mean, it's here. And we're starting to see impressions just uh really drop. Well, okay, well, that's a good way to educate your C-suite, your other departments that are not familiar with this, and they can start seeing that this is not just some, you know, some joke or you know, some FOMO thing or some trend. No, this is this is where we are, and we need to start.

SPEAKER_01: 17:57

Yeah, before I answer, for those of you who are listening, especially know what FOMO stands for, fear of missing out, okay? Just to give you extra context. But yeah, no, I I listen, I I agree. Yellow pages, the last time I used that thing, shoot, I was in grade school. I I barely remember yellow pages. Someone has to bring it up to say, oh yeah, I remember we had to look through the address, but it was a huge scrolling through all that. Listen, you just use this or the computer, okay. Use a smartphone or the computer. Okay, you know that, you know, don't get me wrong, at the time it did have its use, but you know, as as you know, new inventions, as technical aren't looking in search as much anymore. I mean, it's gonna be the same thing. We're gonna have this conversation.

SPEAKER_00: 18:43

Yellow page where people are gonna say, oh, remember when you used to go to Google or Yahoo, you know, and Bing, and now we're not searching like that as much. Now we're in Gemini. You know, we're actually in Chat GPT, you know, we're we're searching in there. So I wonder like that's gonna be a big change, you know, for people.

SPEAKER_01: 19:03

You know, absolutely. And we'll just throw another um examples, you know, copilot and all the other perplexity, all the other AI as you could name of. Yeah, no, you're right. I'm used to I'm using more of search by AI, and sometimes I feel like I'm uh I'm a Gen Zier in some ways, and some ways I'm like a blanket, I'm gonna do my little nostalgia, I'm just doing the web search thing, you know, just for just for nostalgia's sake. Let's let me just be real, but no, but yeah, but even that has changed. That's gonna continue to move forward, especially with the alphas. Well, the alphas are already integrating that, so forget it. Not even integrating, they are born into it, and the beta's forget it. They're so into it, they're subconscious, babies are into it. So, you know, before you know that's that's gonna become the norm. And what's next? Probably holographically.

SPEAKER_00: 19:52

Especially in you know, in the behavioral health space and for your lizards to go. You know, at some point I'll give them a little bit more of my backstory. But for many years, I I worked in behavioral health. I specialized in drug and alcohol treatment centers, and that is where most people looking for help with substance use disorder, they go to they turn to the internet, you know, and that was a big seismic shift over the last couple of decades. And one of the reasons that I was so successful was because I listen, I'm 56 years old, right? And so, but I love working, you know, with with millennials. I love working with Gen Z and Alpha because I don't micromanage them, right? I have a budget, we know what the job is, go get it done. Versus a lot of like when I was growing up, you know, the baby boomers, they wanted to really micromanage, you know, us. And they really wanted to make sure we're doing everything this way. And it's it's a different world now. And if you can, if you can give what I call your commander's intent, empower your team, they will go out and and innovate and do amazing things for you. And the companies that get that, they're the ones that are gonna win.

SPEAKER_01: 20:57

Yep. And instead of those who wants to, I don't know, stick to ancient times and yes, I'm gonna be a little snobby here. You're gonna fall apart. I mean, you want to become another blockbuster or codec or other big businesses I could I could throw in there. Now I gotta look through my through my business, my business history now. I'm not I that's I'm that's not my forte. Um well, it could become my forte. It has history in there. I love to study that. Oh, that's how it used to be. Look, a lot of oh, let's I got another one. Radio Shack. I used to love Radio Shack. I thought it was gonna stay around for so long, but that one, I still haven't figured. I forgot what was their reason why they fell apart, but there was the but there was a big reason. I think that's the one. I mean, they were when I was stagnant and I thought that's the first one. I don't know if you're a fan of the Tour de France, but I'm a big fan of the Tour de France. Obviously, I was wrong about that.

SPEAKER_00: 21:46

I remember you had the the U.S. Postal Service, you had 7-Eleven and Radio Shack, man. They were big sponsors, you know, of the American team. And yeah, they just disappeared. I I haven't studied them, but but I'm gonna look into them. Maybe that'll be my second book, Elias. But I I wonder if it didn't follow the same kind of path that Blockbuster. Like they were so entrenched in the physical stores that they never could quite pivot, you know, to more the Amazon model or the online model. I don't know for sure, but I I wonder if that was the case.

SPEAKER_01: 22:16

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking about because I got a couple examples of those who pivoted to the e-commerce. You know, yeah, they they may be a little fancy bougie with the terms now. You know, online you know, online stores and you know, for plain English, if you prefer that. Look, David C used to have fiscal locations. Now it's all e-commerce. I missed the fiscal location. I used to free load, free samples of tasting hundreds of weird teas. I miss that experience. As a millennial, yes, I missed that experience. But I get it. During the pandemic, it was a necessary move. And they're still and they're still doing pretty well today. The Canadian-based tea company. Shout out to the city. They're not paid uh sponsors of your personality. I don't know them personally, so don't think I'm just even though I'm a capitalist, but look, I yeah, no, no, no. No, they're not. Nope. So I'm gonna just be very clear about that as a note. No, they're not putting drugs in their little tease, just uh get me to say that. No, no, no, no. But if you want to go along with that conspiracy theory, go right ahead. That's your for that's your freedom of speech. You're not entitled to the truth, though. But it'll be a good laugh. Maybe do that in Reddit or somewhere where everybody's angry and they they love dark, they they love gossip, they love the dark stuff. All right, back to the back to the good people who want to be promoted and avoid that Reddit gossip. All right, that that's so that's one way of being stagnant. Um, getting into that, being trenched and that kind of stuff. Thank goodness, it's funny. I I I wouldn't normally enjoy gossip, but for some reason with Reddit, yeah. Never got into it. Maybe because it's so much typing in words, and I'm all visual. You know, maybe you throw memes in there, maybe I would have gotten to it more. But hey, well, you see that see, I don't know, that's a little something for y'all there, Reddit. But anyways, all right, let me not get let me not make the gossipers more powerful. So, yeah, I mean, in general, you're already saying bureaucracy is the way that they lack the competence to pivot, change, adopt new models, or adopt new technologies. I mean, why do some businesses just continue to do that?

SPEAKER_00: 24:17

Well, you know, in the book I point out, conserving the status of the example of Blockbuster, their management team was actually rewarded based on the number of physical stores and late fees. So that's how they were bonused. And so that's why I I like to explain that to younger leaders and people that are getting into business so that sometimes they might be in an argument or a fight with somebody above them. And it you have to understand, like it may have nothing to do with you. It could be a situation where you're starting to move their cheese, so to speak. And I think you know, that personally happened to me when I was at Foundations. We had a we had uh some very hard couple of months, and then I realized that the the issue was nothing to do with the way that I was generating leads or or our business was going. It was that it was at odds with one of one of my C-suite partners uh bonus. And so, you know, all of a sudden, you know, we had to, we had to come to a realization to say, okay, you can't, if you're being bonused on cutting expenses and I'm being bonused on growing the business, that's very those two things don't always you know marry up. So I say that. Same thing happened with Kodak, Eastman Kodak, you know, the big film company. They're they they they basically own digital photography, but they didn't invest in it because they were bonus based on the amount of chemicals that they bought and used every year. So they were never gonna pivot because that was how their bonus structure was. And at the end of the day, we are going to operate based on personal needs. And if you've got a big bonus, you know, it maybe, you know, you're you're gonna do what you need to do to get that to keep feeding your family and growing. And I think a lot of companies sometimes don't realize that they set up bonus structures that are competing. And so I'm a big believer that everybody needs to know what the bonus structure is. You don't need to know the amount of money. That that should be private. But you need to know that, no, if this department's got this goal and then my department's got this other goal, we need to know so that there's no conflict, right? And then we can we can address it. And I think a lot of companies don't think about that sometimes. They kind of set up a little bonus structure over here and they come over here and do another bonus structure, and sometimes you end up having these competing priorities. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 26:28

Ah, so it's I will call them uh the incentive structures is one that makes it. You know, that makes perfect sense. Listeners and viewers, if you have a chance to comment, do you have anything else you want to add to why businesses have are dysfunctional, yeah, or they're stagnant, or they have intra conflict within the company. Forget about two big businesses fights, so that's natural. Okay. But within the company, you know, intra conflict, yeah, that makes, yeah, that makes sense. It's the incentives, yeah. That are quite frankly obsolete, but you're right. But people, I mean, yeah, especially those who got big, they're and there's another big stakes thing that I write about in the book.

SPEAKER_00: 27:12

Some other departments, especially if you're in marketing. And a lot of people, I don't, I don't know if you've ever noticed this as last, but you know, a lot of people who don't work in marketing, they have, they're very opinionated about marketing. They've never done it, but boy, they got a lot of opinions. And I I don't know if other departments, you know, are like that, but like for me, like I would never go to the chief financial officer and say, hey, I think you're I think you're running our books wrong. Like I would never assume that I know more about, you know, like public accounting than they would. But they have these biases toward us about marketing, and it's a cognitive bias. And it's and I write about it that it's actually what's called the Dunning Krueger effect. And it's people that have lesser abilities in an area, but they have they may have outsized power, and they can come in and affect your your business or your strategy sometimes. And and I think it's important for your listeners to understand that so that when they're hearing something, it's not just, well, so-and-so doesn't like me or they're no, no, it's a cognitive bias. And if you can call it out, not be personal, but you can call it out, then I think that helps to diffuse the situation. It certainly worked in in my career. And I think once I could have these honest conversations, then other departments and other people stopped interfering as much because in marketing, everybody's got a cousin that can build a website. And everybody's got, you know, another cousin that does social media. And so everybody's got these commentary. Oh, you should hire this person or they can do it cheaper, this or that. It's like, yeah, no, no, no. That's your cognitive bias.

SPEAKER_01: 28:46

You know what? I never realized that, but you know what you're saying is actually true. Sure, I even got I even got my times like my little opinion with how they do the social media thing. And I was like, why is this person talking like he's freaking high on sugar? Is that for engagement? You know, that's one. I mean, there's many examples I could go through, but it was one that, oh yeah, that's news today. It's like, whoa, whoa, if I want to be hyped up, I want to wake up, I'll listen to that, but I want to do something calmer and have this guy say, Oh yeah, that's news today. Guess what? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Look, I didn't even listen. It to me was already blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, mentally, because I I was already thrown off by that. The tone, I mean, I just think it's exposure, I guess, because a lot of people quote know about it. We get exposed to marketing as opposed to, I don't know, we don't get exposed to accounting. Accounting's not going to be able to do that. Everybody's got an opinion. And even what information security, that's a select group of people. Marketing, yeah, it's a select group of people. The last one I when I wrote my book. But it goes to the public. So I think that's what generates opinion.

SPEAKER_00: 29:58

That's what I think at least. And it would generally go. Go like this. Hey Lee, uh, you should get on Good Morning America. Okay, great, not helpful, but how how do I get on Good Morning America? Oh, I don't know. Just find somebody. You know, it's like everybody's got an idea. You know, and so it's like, yeah, but you've never done it. And that's what I'm always like. I I love bringing in different things, but I I need I need ideas that can be executed and people that can execute them, you know?

SPEAKER_01: 30:26

Oh, I absolutely agree. That's why I just when it comes, you know what? And that's why I I selectively talk now, because if if I can't help them get to that next step, I want to keep my mouth shut. Um that's just something me on some areas. Oh, yeah, no, but ABC. Oh, but how can I get interviewed by Joe Rogan? Oh, well, that I I don't know. Contact him, I guess. What the hell do I know? Right? That's the answer. I mean, that's me, you know. Um shout out to Joe Rogan on some on some episodes. I don't agree with all of them. Not you know, uh it's just that since it's exposed to public, you generate a lot of opinions. Of course, good, bad, in the middle, or just even what the hell? It's so out of whack. Oh, okay, help me call my mommy. You know, this is a random example. Some be used like to troll, you know. So I just think it's public exposure, I guess. That's the only thing I can think of because accounting select a group of people, technology select the group of people, and they and they, I mean, yeah, they need marketing to promote them. Yeah, marketing suit the promotion, not really them, because if you let uh a cybersecurity person do it, yeah, not a 10 cents. They're gonna suck at marketing, they're gonna sign like a robot trying to sell you something. Today we have a book from the pepper call, never outmatch. It is perfectly logical. You will defeat your competition, you will execute them immediately. You know, no contacts. There you go, no contacts. So you just spend no concept of negative determination.

SPEAKER_00: 31:55

When I was working full-time, you know, our marketing organizations, we had our own IT.

SPEAKER_01: 31:59

Oh, yeah, forget it. Oh, bad marketing, bad marketing would rank.

SPEAKER_00: 32:06

And if you just let your IT department, who, and I was a CIO, so I I was very familiar with all these different nuances, but if you just let your typical IT department uh run your web hosting, guess what? They're just gonna go with the cheapest because it's in their budget. And like you're they're not necessarily gonna implement Cloudflare, they're not gonna implement all the different tools. And so it was really important that we needed to have somebody that's specialized, you know, in web security and web hosting and not just say, oh, just give it to IT. And so I think that I think that there is a lot of people that you know maybe don't appreciate, like, if you're gonna write SEO for a website, okay, well, you you can't just use any copywriter, like you need to have somebody that's experienced in in working in that area. Same thing with doing podcasting. I mean, you can't just get somebody off the street and put a mic and a camera on them and say, okay, you're now doing podcasting. And so I think that trying to elevate marketing, you know, as the expertise that you need, I think it is super helpful. And I and I use these military strategies to help me all along the way to you know to fight these cognitive biases and to elevate our game.

SPEAKER_01: 33:15

You know what I live, you know what I got people? There's common threats here. Remove your emotional pettiness when you have these debates. Because if you show that you're emotional and it's personal, you're not that's a guaranteed losing strategy. Oh, okay, you just fight for yourself. Ah, I care about the bottom line of the business, not your little personal problems. You keep that at home. Yeah, throw that out at home, okay? Just like you said, use the data as a bad guy. That's a very good way to go about it. You know, even though you're challenging their bonuses, incentives. But yeah, but you have to make you have to make a case for it if you're gonna have a winning oh a chance to win. Because and look, you might lose round one, but don't give it round two, three, or hopefully. And and that's all that's all I can say. Just give it a fighting and fighting you know, chance to the evidence. Well, and that's why I titled the book Never Outmatched.

SPEAKER_00: 34:10

Oh, I think yellow pages are old people that are tired of moments in our careers. Good luck with that art. We're gonna feel like we're not getting traction, we're not winning. And when that adversity comes at you, you have to determine that in the face of that adversity, that you're never gonna be outmatched, that you are gonna keep plugging away, you're gonna, you're gonna keep figuring out. Because in the military analogy, you cannot just give up. Giving up, you're going to be captured or killed. So that's not even an option. Like you have to find that internal fortitude. And that that's why I titled the book Never Outmatched, because there's lots of things. I mean, listen, I graduated college, Elias. The internet was not invented. I I did my my papers on a typewriter. So, how is it that somebody that didn't grow up with the internet, didn't grow up with cell phones, type, you know, had a typewriter. So, how is it that I've been able to be successful, you know, in digital marketing and now pivoting into AI? It's because I, in my mind, I just said, I'm going to learn what I need to learn. And I'm always, I know that what I'm doing today isn't going to last. I have to be looking for the next thing, the next innovation. That's what keeps our company, companies I've worked at moving forward and being successful and not ending up like a blockbuster or a Kodak.

SPEAKER_01: 35:26

Oh, yeah, exactly. And and I'll think people, yeah, be a lifelong learner. Don't think um, what I learned today is gonna stay the same. Not if don't even give it a don't even give it away.

SPEAKER_02: 35:37

I agree with you.

SPEAKER_01: 35:37

Be a little paranoid, yeah. And one thing I want especially with AI, trends are coming and going. Probably if I'm gonna be a little dramatic, faster than you can even blink. It's gonna get to that point. Well, I was gonna say a last the other thing too. That's something I have for that's something I really have to move. Oh, okay, I'm gonna join all that. No, that mindset is actually.

SPEAKER_00: 35:56

You got older people like me, you know, the dinosaurs. Like sometimes they're worried about well, I'm gonna be judged, or I wasn't I didn't have a great month, or my quarter was off. And what they need to understand is that you were hired. You have no bigger fans than your boss, your board of directors, and your C-suite. They they want you to be fabulously successful. And we get in our minds and our brains that, oh my gosh, somebody's mad at me, or I didn't hit my numbers this month or this quarter, and now I might get fired. No. They need to understand that this they hired you, they want you to be wildly successful. And so you have to sometimes be vulnerable. Like you have to be able to admit that, hey, you know what? I I we were doing this thing over here, it didn't work. So now we're gonna pivot. Like you've got to be open, you've got to communicate because listen, it's a lot cheaper for them to have you be successful than to fire you and go hire somebody else. That's gonna be many, many months of trying to find somebody and then you know, tens of thousands of dollars to rehire. They, they, they really are in your corner, even though it may not feel like it. Just know that when you're feeling that stress and that pressure, it's probably in your mind versus what they're actually thinking. They're probably they're probably more like thinking, God, when's Lee gonna figure this out? Let's go. What can we do? And so they need to be able to ask for, you know, ask for help sometimes. You know, they need to be able to say, well, maybe I need to get some more training or maybe I need to, maybe I need to reshift my budget because I've never seen a budget, a marketing budget you couldn't work with. And I hear that from people that I consult with and coach, they'll say, like, well, they I don't have enough. Okay, well, move things around. You know, I think I write about it in the book. I mean, you know, you don't have to maybe attack the whole country. Like, maybe if you're if you've got a nationwide business, why don't you take a quarter and maybe focus on the Northeast? See if you can win in the Northeast. You know, you can shift things around. You maybe if you've got staff, maybe you need to let somebody go over here so you can hire a new AI specialist. I mean, that's what you're hired to do, is to figure these things out. And that's where you always got to fight that status quo mentality.

SPEAKER_01: 37:58

Oh, yeah. So it is a mindset. Hey, you know what? This is speaking to me. Is this speaking to you? Listen, if you use for the serious one, not the trolls. I don't care what you think. You you can say all kinds of crazy things. Oh, oh yeah, they're against me, they won't get me out. Look, I look, I've been through that feeling. I'm not gonna lie to you. I've I've been through that feeling, and uh it's and I'm learning how to fight that. Um it comes and goes for me personally. But you know what? You know what that makes a whole that makes sense what you say. So get me wrong, some of them have done that, especially ones that are in mainstream media, they talk about the layoffs and all of that, you know, and which is unfortunate. And ironically, a lot of them are tech people that created this stuff, which is mind-boggling. I said, Wow, you created something that's gonna cause your layoff. I don't mean a laugh, but it's so ironic. It's just I you know, and I'm sure they thought they had a golden ticket for the rest of their lives, but the AI could automate so much of their tasks. Web building, massive data, and and look, no human brain could analyze massive data as quickly as AI. It's just that's what that's what it's trained for. Because I mean human human connections or complex customer service, yeah, human intervention is so needed. Yeah, yeah. Don't worry about it. I'm a very I'm very experienced at this. Not the first time this craziness has happened.

SPEAKER_00: 39:26

So that's why I do that, that's why I love doing this. I I come to downtown Nashville because the my building's got fiber. So, but every now and then it's Google fiber. So maybe Google heard me say something.

SPEAKER_01: 39:41

Yeah, I don't know. Cloudflare. I'm gonna blame them. I'm gonna blame Cloudflare for that with their with their outage during a recording of this episode. Yeah, I couldn't get on Twitter this morning. I was trying to post this stuff to Twitter. I was like, what? Yep. I don't know. I gotta agree with one of my tech guests that I don't know, centralization is such a good idea because if one thing messes up, it it's a domino effect. I mean, and not that long ago, the Amazon cloud services had a major one. I think that one was even worse. It affected even Riverside itself. I couldn't even start a recording or everything. And it's a good thing I was on top of that. I got aware of it. I was just very militant and quick about it. I said, no, I and I was very sick that day. I was like bobbling like this. I gotta get this message out. You look uh I I'll feel good, I'll feel good later. Because I'll have such a mean and you because you know I believe communication is very important. The faster you do it, it says just you know sin on it, the better. But you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 40:41

And you wonder, like, uh as we start to move into because I don't I don't know if they're in New York, but you know, the Waymo cars, you know, they're in LA, they're they're coming to Nashville, like they're they're testing and doing all that. But but you wonder, are we gonna have if we have a cloud flare outage or an AWS outage, are the cars gonna stop?

SPEAKER_01: 40:58

I would hope they do that instead of go off of their own because Oh yeah, he would prefer that. I'm just I mean, this is not the first time I talk about the Waymo. I mean, I had a guest shout out to shout out to him. Yeah, he was against the Waymo car, I mean Waymo cars, the amount of folks you're just driving through cement, poured cement. I mean, it was wow. So one was even hitting the building, one of them wasn't even hit the purses.

SPEAKER_00: 41:23

Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 41:23

Okay, I'm anti-Waymo. I'm I'm I'm in for innovation, but you gotta get this crap together. Life's what I'm trying to think here. Yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00: 41:31

What what I'm trying to figure out on the Waymo, and a buddy of mine, Jeff Skill and I have been having this conversation. That is assuming that the person who was in the car before you is gonna be clean and keep it. I mean, how are they how are they gonna like manage like all of a sudden people leaving trash in the car? And I mean, I just I I just know how people are. You know, it's like, can you imagine? Like, I don't know how they figured that part out yet.

SPEAKER_01: 41:55

I don't know. I'm gonna be cynical. I'm gonna think that I'm gonna say they haven't. I'm I'm gonna go down that route. I'm sure they're gonna have what like a little surveillance camera to see how messy. I mean, I was just documenting the the you know the bad behavior. I mean, that's great and all. I don't know, maybe you should penalize them or make sure that particular credit card doesn't work. Oh, now they're gonna think I'm promoting Chinese uh propaganda right there. So no, only for that particular customer. I'm not I'm not gonna go, I'm not gonna go with, oh, just debank that person completely because of their political beliefs. Look, I I don't believe in that crap at all. So let's not go with the whole China thing. I don't have some of you think, oh, China owes social credit. No, I'm not going. I'm I'm born about penalizing documented bad behavior.

SPEAKER_00: 42:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 42:38

Okay. That is a reason. Okay, and that's rational. Okay. In China, if you criticize the leader, oh yeah. Oh, you're yep, and they got everything tied to that card. Oh, yeah, you you can't you can't live. Yeah, yeah. You can't live. Okay. I'm not promoting that at all. I'm against that. Let's be clear. Yeah, it's uh yeah, the Waymo, I'm I'm anti-Waymo right now. Um until they fix a lot of that stuff. Or the only way you're gonna convince me is have a manual override drive option. Something. I don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_00: 43:13

They need to do something because well listen, you you come to Nashville soon. We'll take you down on Broadway, we'll take you out honky tonky, and we'll go find one of those Waymo's and test it out.

SPEAKER_01: 43:21

Oh, yeah. Well, thank well. Well, uh, you know what? Driving in New York streets is already scary enough. I I don't know. I think I think I'm gonna have such permanent uh I'm gonna develop PTSD. I hope not. I hope I'm really wrong here, people. If you see if I don't drive anymore, if I end up being rich with always having a chaperone, you know why. Because Waymo gave me PTSD.

SPEAKER_00: 43:48

We're gonna put a cowboy hat on you. They won't even recognize you in the Waymo.

SPEAKER_01: 43:51

No, yeah, I'm gonna change my name. I'm gonna change your name to Yang know what that is. Yeah, so stay out, you know, mind your own business, your barmin. There you go. I'm kidding, but uh all the all services. Yeah, I'll I'll try it out once. I'll I'm that risky, but second time, that's where it's gonna get iffy for me. I I'll give it, I'll give it a shot once. Yeah, oh man, yeah. Hopefully, hopefully my New York hardness will prevail there. Uh I don't know. Um this is why I'm I'm really humbling myself, people, because normally I use my New Yorkness as a brag or as a flex. As a listen, we we quick, we like to make decisions real quick, even for something as simple as coffee and bagels and all that. If you hold up the line, you're the enemy. Yep, just like that. Online having a nice little conversation, you you get everybody agitated. Yeah. Harry the hell up. Yeah, I developed that's environmental, my my patience. Um uh yeah, yeah, I can blame New York for that, but uh at the end of the day, I I'm carrying it with me, so I gotta fix that at some point. Let me just be honest, let me just be a little accountable there for for now. But yeah, no, this is this is I gotta say, it's been such a yeah. I know this conversation could be great, but this is even better than I I thought. Look at ease. Yeah, you know, I hope you're getting some people. Look, most importantly, get this book. Well, forget the sticker here. Forget this book here.

SPEAKER_00: 45:11

Yeah, because Elias has one of the advanced copies. So see, you got one of the first 100 advanced copies. So hopefully that's gonna be collectible because there was only 100 of them printed. And so now it's a hardback book, so the hardback is out. And you know, it's out, you can get it on Amazon, of course, but it's at all major retailers, Barnes and Noble and Target and Costco and Walmart and what have you. And then it's gonna be in airport bookstores the month of December. So if anybody's traveling in December, you should be able to find it at your airport bookstore. And I I hope that everybody's flights are on time. But that's that was the you know, if you're if you're gonna get delayed, I'm sure a lot of people go to the bookstore.

SPEAKER_01: 45:47

Oh, that is such a great, shameless plugin. I love it. Don't get mad at head people. I'm gonna defend Lee on that one. I'm sure he doesn't need it, but I'm gonna do it anyways because, hey, if you're gonna be stuck on a fly just waiting there for hours, you might as well read this damn book and learn something while you're at it. Be productive with your wait time. Oh, that's so crazy.

SPEAKER_00: 46:12

Well, and it's also, you know, I also have a Kindle and I also recorded an audio version. So, you know, you don't have to get the hardback, you can also listen to it or get it on your Kindle too.

SPEAKER_01: 46:20

So look at that for you, Jed Alpha and Z. There's your option right there. Have it read to you. You know, I know some of you, you know, some of your literacy skills are not the best, but hey, that's what Kindle's there for. You know, you know, I used to be like that, so I'm not gonna laugh. I used to have that trouble, but through my mother's ironic military approach, the church is just forcing me to read a whole bunch of books. I got better.

SPEAKER_00: 46:45

Well, my you know, I've got one of my sons is an audio is an auditory learner, and so he does much better when he can listen to the book on audio book. The retention's a lot better.

SPEAKER_01: 46:54

Yeah, everybody are different learners too. So there you go. That's a nice that that's a nice version of it. I'm not the biggest fan of it. I like to be the silicon able version of it. I have my own spit, my own bias to it. But but he's right, though. He's right. Let's just let me just be serious.

SPEAKER_00: 47:08

And and alas, also, I was gonna tell you too. I mean, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be speaking at the vet ready conference in December in Washington, D.C. So if any of your listeners are you know in the DC Baltimore area, they can come and hear me speak on December 11th. And I'm gonna be in this in uh Scottsdale, Arizona on December 9th at a at a behavioral health conference, TC, TCIV conference. So anybody that you know wants to get a copy of the book or or chat with me, I'd love love to see them in the audience and they can always connect with me on LinkedIn. And I mean, I'm on all the socials, so LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok.

SPEAKER_01: 47:46

So all right, LinkedIn, yep. A link is a big one I'm gonna always push because this is a very profession topic. Yep. Once I get those links, it's gonna be right in the description. That's standard practice. You know, shouldn't it be an extra request? Look, he's here growing his value. Give him some payback, follow him, talk to him, and then if you understand what he said about those next conferences, well, there's your reason to email him. Okay, so that's all I can say. Look, he's doing great stuff here. He's not just doing business work, he's even doing look, yeah, behavioral health, that's very important. Mental illnesses through the roof, unfortunately, on a serious note. So, hey, we need all the allies we could get there.

SPEAKER_00: 48:26

And I'll tell you, Elizabeth, if any of your listeners are veterans, I volunteer in my county with the Veterans Treatment Corp. Most large counties in America have a veterans treatment court. It's an alternative sentencing court, almost like DUI Corp. And so it's for veterans that get in trouble with the law and they can apply to join the Veterans Corps and go through therapy, get connected with the VA instead of just being sent to jail. And so it's a it's a wonderful program. And we've kept, you know, hundreds of soldiers and sailors, you know, out of jail and had had them get the therapy and the treatment they needed through our program. But we always need mentors. And so if if you are if if you are a veteran and are interested, you can just Google it and look it up where they can get in touch with me and I can direct them to their county. But it's one of these things where it only works if we have other veterans that can be you know mentors and be buddies, you know, for these these men and women that are going through this this hard time in their life.

SPEAKER_01: 49:22

No, you know, I absolutely agree. Because me, I'm gonna be honest, I'm not gonna be the best person for it. I don't have military experience. I'm at 99% there, but you know, that it's not to bash me, but it's just it's true. You know, people like Lee and I got even a couple of other podcast guests that are veterans. They could do the, you know, they could make the most impact of this. Not me. I know where where I stand. Maybe I could deal with people who were, I don't know, neurotic or maybe those people I got with. Yeah, oh no, no, no, no, oh no, no, no. That that I will withdraw so fast. You talk about giving the now I'll give up so fast, I don't care. To be giving up is peace. Yeah, that's how I'm gonna frame it. They're gonna reframe, reframe the whole thing. I'm going towards peace again. I had a lot of fun. You see how you're gonna do that. That's been a really great conversation, Alice.

SPEAKER_00: 50:18

I'm really I mean, I'm proud that to get to know you. I'm excited for what you're doing for you and your audience, and I I just wish you the best of luck, and I think it's really important work that you're doing. And I I really love the podcast platform. I I think it's really wonderful.

SPEAKER_01: 50:32

Ah, thank you so much. Yep, man. Listeners and viewers, again, again, just just support him. You know, I'm gonna put the links as usual. I can spoil you with a bunch of links. I should get uh a bunch of link trees at this point. I don't know. You probably say, well, I'm not innovating there. I say, well, until I get 10 link, well not 10, yeah, 10 links or more, yeah, then I'll do a link tree. I'll I'll pay for that, no problem. You know, look, I I I gotta start acting like I'm poor. I'm actually getting money. I gotta get used to that. So you know that's another that's another shift there. Um don't get me wrong, the poor man's mentality is good to some degree, especially with frugal fiscal conservatism, which is not practicing US politics at all.

SPEAKER_00: 51:16

That's gonna be another episode for us where we can get we can we can go off on our thoughts on third parties.

SPEAKER_01: 51:24

Oh, yes, no, yeah. I'm beginning, I I like I like some third parties, but somehow I think they're a bit wacky and too niche. That's why they don't succeed. Yeah, that that we could talk about there. Yeah, that'll be that'll be your return. It'd be more political than you know, then strategic and professional. Remember, such as and look, I don't like to regurgitate conversations, so if you want to deal with it again, it's cold. Restart or rewind. I am not doing the whole conversation again, okay? Unless you're crazy, you just love to torture yourself. That's your business. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna help you with that, okay? And I trust me, me and Lee have much better things to do with our time, okay? That's all I'm gonna say about that. Now for my shameless plug-in. Actually, no, before I do that, anything else you want to add before I-I really appreciate your time. Oh brother, I appreciate your you know, your time and expertise as well. So I'm learning I'm learning every day, really. I'm really serious now. I'm actually really learning every day. You know, actually, this book, I was already implementing some strategies. I already seen some outcomes already. There's some I could implement, but I'm just doing like baby steps with them, just baby steps. So that's me right there. So for my shameless plugin, look, like, comment, subscribe. And then if you want to get real spicy comments, wait for it to get on Rumble, okay? Because YouTube will censor you if you get too crazy with the comments. That's YouTube, not me. I don't believe in censorship. I believe you you should be as vile as you could be so people can know who the hell you are. That's what I believe in. I believe the document, even the even the ugliness, the the ratchetness, the craziness. Yep, I believe that kind of documentation. I'd be that'd let you get away with it. It's because look, this is what this person is, okay? No, no, it's not for you just to say a bunch of racist randomness, it's not to give you a green, it's not to give you a pass here, but anything you being exposed, okay? So just think of it that way. I love some people like to twist things, but it's not it's not look, I support freedom of speech, but freedom comes with responsibility, okay? And then once you get irresponsible, governments will find any little reason to take away our rights, okay? And and they're doing it, and they're doing it every day little by little. Okay, now it's getting too political. Maybe shop and just do shamers plug-in. Uh that's probably a little for you know foreshadowing right there, people. Just take it as that. So now also, not just for the share and all that. If you're feeling generous, donate three dollars a month for the very old stuff, the cringe worthy star. If you're gonna hurt my feelings, I need to hurt your wallet. Fair enough. And also for reviews, leave them on the Apple Podcast. That's the ones I've been paying attention to. And then if the episode's really great, give it five star and give a reason why. Empty compliments, I don't accept. The episode's great, I don't accept that. Or if it's not as great, for forge or one star, give a reason why why didn't it do so great, and which way, you know, what improvements could have been done, okay? It could be something like sounding, it could be light, taking out your host. No, that part very stubborn. That one, I use executive decision to override your craziness. I'm not doing that just yet, so unless I get a co-host at some point. But if that was gonna deal with me, and that's that, and love me and hate me, I'm still gonna be me. But I love my listeners, I my loyal listeners, I'm not worried about you. You're great people. You're great. You gave me this opportunity, you gave me this chance. Look, it's really a privilege, really. It really is. So I thank you for your loyal support. I don't do this often, I should be doing that more often. Show gratitude. Show gratitude. That's my little spiritual growth right there. So so easy to get caught up and you know, become dramatic and negative, and you know, get get you know, get caught up and absorb all that stress, you know. It's okay to have stress, but uh chronic stress is where it becomes a problem. Right? Stress means you're alive, okay? And the final thing, now for my cool three links. I love this part here. New paper. If you want news without the political slant, straight to the point news, click on new paper. It's free. And you know, you get your stocks, your sports, your international, national news. And if you read through the whole thing, it's probably gonna take about five minutes. But if you're very picky, just like your politics or just sports, one or two minutes. Yeah, that's a good, a good quick read for busy people. And then for pod match, yep, this platform I used to get a lot of guests. He's not one of them. I make him look bad, but he's actually awesome, non-pod match guests. Actually, yeah, he's actually better than some of the pod match guests. Yeah, pod match, step it up. Because yeah, if anything, he could be a great benefit to pod match, really. I mean, you could you could definitely reach the community, really. I'm actually serious when I say that. You know, he he know he he knows podcasts. He, you know, he's been doing this. I could tell. Um some of them, you could tell they're they don't know what they're doing, and I gotta kinda baby them a little bit. Um, I don't mind doing that to some degree, but I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna chronically, I'm not gonna keep babying you in the long term. I'm gonna say, no, well, eventually you're gonna have to learn. I'm gonna have to just let you go and see what you're gonna do from there. Because I don't believe you just keep um holding your hand until some point, you know, some point you gotta pick up something, you know? So pod match, and the reason why I love pod match is because I I do find great guests for the most part, I do. And it's easy for me to communicate, respond real quick, instead of digging through all those crazy emails. Well, thank goodness for him, he had to do those one-pager PDF crap because oh, that would have been so much fun. If he had an error or something changed, he has to open up, I don't know, uh a Microsoft PowerPoint or Word, whatever the heck he uses, do all that work and just and then send a new PDF. Oh, too much work with PopMatch, let's do a couple of edits, you know, backspace, add some photos, all that's very, it's very, very, very simple. And there's some free plans as well. And yeah, for those of you that don't wanna that that don't want to pay. And of course, there were paid pay plans as well. So, you know, for me, to me, it's a 21st century thing, and a lot of independent people were there, not just independent politically, but I mean just independent, small podcasters, even some some big ones are there too. Good good for them on that. So, one more thing, my most favorite one, the freak website guys. You be helping this podcast if you need a website or need a new website, try the free website guys, and they help you, they go step by step with you. This one, ironically, they hold your hand a lot more than I'm willing to do. Let me be honest. I'm not willing to hold the hands that much. They're patient, they work with you, they give you nice gentle follow-ups as well. So give them a shot. They got cheap, they got cheap plans, so you know, or if you, you know, bougie, you want to flex your muscle, get a super developed website, they could do that as well. So all budgets included. From the poor to the very wealthy. Don't worry, I don't hate rich people. So don't worry about that on wealthy people. I I I don't hate it. It's just that you've either been lucky or you've been incredibly talented. That's all I'm gonna say about that. So, all right, finally, we can end this. Once you complete this visual or audio journey, you have a blessed day, afternoon, or night.