326- AI Meets Healthcare: Real-World Impact with Mariano Garcia-Valino

We explore how AI and open data can shift healthcare from reactive to proactive, cutting waste and improving outcomes without replacing clinicians. We also compare Brazil and the US, unpack the economics of chronic disease, and touch on regulation, fraud, and the future of molecular diagnostics.

• AI as augmentation to prioritize scarce clinician time
• Brazil–US parallels in private care and funding constraints
• Transition from acute to chronic care models with monitoring
• Diabetes cost breakdown and avoidable complications
• Targeting the highest-risk 5 percent for early intervention
• Fighting fraud and administrative waste with pattern detection
• Regulation, human oversight, and feedback loops for safety
• Molecular biology and biomarkers for earlier prediction
• Genetics versus lifestyle in personalized care planning
• Art, abstraction, and AI as creative tools beyond clinics

Follow Mariano Garcia-Valino at ...

His website that has huge artwork collection

https://mgarciavalino.com/

LinkedIn

https://www.linkedin.com/in/mgarciavalino/

Chapters

• 0:00 Setting The Stage And Guest Intro
• 2:39 Why Healthcare Data Needs AI
• 8:58 Augmenting Clinicians, Not Replacing Them
• 14:55 Brazil vs US Systems And Funding Gaps
• 21:31 Chronic Care Model: From Acute To Proactive
• 26:55 Diabetes Economics And Continuous Monitoring
• 31:45 Targeting The Costly 5 Percent
• 36:14 Fraud, Waste, And A Trillion-Dollar Opportunity
• 41:40 Regulation, Safety, And Human Oversight
• 46:40 Talent, Incentives, And The Future Workforce
• 53:20 Climate, Long-Term Thinking, And Incentives
• 58:50 Molecular Biology And Predictive Biomarkers
• 1:03:40 Genetics, Lifestyle, And Personalized Plans

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:14

Welcome everyone to politically high tech with your host, Elias. I know some of the recent episodes that are gonna come out. I have some of the returning guests, but don't worry, new guests are coming back, and this is good for me because look, I like to expand, and I want to expose my audience to different technologies, you know, and and do some kind of intersections that you might not normally think about. Okay, and the first we're gonna talk about is especially Mariano here. He's a very, very accomplished businessman, you know. You may see his artwork and may not even think he's a business person, but he's actually both. It could be more than one thing. And he's done, yeah, he's already done some work, and he's gonna defeducate us about or lighting us about his companies and about you know Brazil, because you know they start in Brazil and see how they could expand to even the United States. You're gonna dive into that and see there's some you look, and I like what he said right before recording that healthcare is not one issue, it's each country got its own different version issues, so it's like 190 plus issue because each each of them looks healthcare, each country looks at healthcare very differently. Yeah, you may have some similar systems, but there's always differences how it's run, it's always impacted by culture, what kind of people, you know, geography, all of that stuff impacts um healthcare, so much stuff, even your DNA, okay? Yeah, even go to your DNA. So it's that it's that complicated. So we're gonna get into that. And before we get started, I'm gonna do let's monologue and get straight to the introduction. Let's introduce the guest here and feel free to correct me on the air. This is Mr. Mariano Garcia Valino, and he's he's a very accomplished businessman. First thing we want to talk about is healthcare and how healthcare could you know improve outcomes through technology or even AI or or whatever? Because I think um AI could improve healthcare. It's just how we use it and how we implement it is really the important part, right? So uh before we get started, Mariana, what do you want the listeners and the viewers to know about you before we get started?

SPEAKER_01: 2:38

Hi, Elias. Thank you very much for having me. I think uh you're you're very very kind. I I've been involved in healthcare and technology for a long time now. I this um this company I'm running now is my fourth company, and the three others have been fairly successful. We've we've sold the three, IPO'd one of them for over a billion, so it's it has been a nice career. And fairly recently I've launched uh well fairly recently five years ago. I've launched Axenia, which is a company that is doing exactly what you say, is trying to take advantage of the massive amount of data that we are now collect and AI, because one thing actually goes hand in hand with the other. So healthcare has been producing data for ages, and when you when you look at the the sheer amount of that, it's about I think the number is something like 60% of all data in the world belongs to healthcare. The the issue has always been the huge amount of it, and the fact that it's very it's very fragmented. So putting it all together in one space, it's difficult technically and it's difficult because of regulatory things as well. So but recently uh movements are are are are are slowly going into uh open healthcare, something similar to open finance, which as you know, a revolutionized finance industry. I think that will revolutionize healthcare as well. But you need as well AI. Otherwise, you will have a huge amount of data that even if you put every single doctor on the planet uh to to to look at it, you will not get uh you will not get that. But I think we do have that right now, and we're starting to see impact of AI everywhere in healthcare, which is in a way encouraging, because you you know that we we have been seeing impact of of technology every single uh place on Earth. And and there there is this very famous phrase about but from Mark Anderson saying like software is eating the world. That has something like 20 years. And in healthcare, it has not yet had a lot of impact. And the the reason is that we need more we needed more technology to actually impact something as complex and as critical as healthcare. And I think we don't have it. So I think we are we are gonna see you know great things coming from that.

SPEAKER_00: 4:57

I mean, uh I'm I'm excited about it because I can see potential here. I mean, AI, I'm critical about it when it comes to customer service. It's not necessarily the best yet. I say yet, because it's a very evolving technology. It could solve basic issues like bill payment, you know, change credit card, that kind of thing. It could solve those, no problem. You don't really need a human there. But it comes to, I don't know, the credit card not working, or you're doing everything right, but yet the system is malfunctioning, and I I think some human interventions need it. But I this is why I say I say like healthcare, I mean not healthcare, AI, excuse me, is continue to evolve, and I'm sure it's gonna reach a stage that it can even deal with some complicated human-centric issues. But it comes like anything like systems or repetitive tasks, oh, it's excellent. No doubt about it. And and analyzing massive data, like you said, healthcare has tremendous amount of data, put it mildly. AI will be, of course, great for for that.

SPEAKER_01: 6:00

Yeah, yeah, I think I think the the the critical the critical way of looking at that in in in healthcare and and probably maybe in every industry is is augmenting, right? So I don't I don't think that healthcare is gonna replace doctors. I know that people have that hype. I don't think that will happen in the next, at least not in the next decade. We don't know how much is going to improve beyond that. No one knows. Maybe we comes a time where you know you're gonna be comfortable and safe and happy in in a robot hands. It's not the case today. I think the case today is that you eventually need a doctor, a human nurse or someone like that, for technical reasons and also for human reasons. I think that you know you you you're really not comfortable with a machine making the decision, even if the machine is is better than a doctor. Even when we use when we use algorithms today to diagnose it is the doctor who actually makes the final the final call. And I'm happy with that. I don't I don't think that that we need to to change that. I think the the the the the great thing here is that doctors are an incredible resource, very, very difficult to to create. So educating a doctor takes a lot of time, a lot of money, and you there don't only so much of them. And so the more you can take you know routine tasks from them or things that take a lot of time for them and and focus them into the right problem, which is something that AI does really well, the more the better we can use the resource and and and the lower the cost is gonna be. So the the way I see it here is uh is a little bit like like uh traffic camps, right? So you you cannot you you you can have a city completely safe if you put uh a policeman in every corner in every street, but you don't have enough policemen to do that. So you can put cameras in every corner in every street, and then the cameras will will actually drive the policemen where they have to be and not where they don't have to be. And that's that's the way you optimize, you optimize uh security. It's just a similar thing with healthcare. So with healthcare, you can monitor people, you can make complex analyses of people and flag people for further review by a doctor or by a nurse. And that's that's the way we do it. And we feel it's it's it's probably the way the way it should be done. I think I don't think that we need to think about, you know, we're gonna replace a nurse by this, we're gonna replace a doctor by that. And there's no need for that. The doctors are really good. What we need to do is don't waste their time with things that the machine can do.

SPEAKER_00: 8:30

Oh, you know, I absolutely agree with that. I think, you know, I love why you say you need to prioritize, focus where they really need to be, so just doing the guesswork or patrol, like you know, that's more like a police example. And in healthcare, I think what they can make better decisions and you know, and focus on you know doing the real important work, saving lives and all that. So just I don't know, dealing with insurance paperwork, for example. Uh maybe, maybe AI could expedite that part of the process. And I'm using a Southern American example, because that's the only healthcare I'm familiar with, but you know, you can lie to me about how Brazilian healthcare works, what's uh similarities and differences because theoretically, I don't know Brazil has uh universal health care, you know, the the outcomes are not great, but maybe with AI assistance it could um improve.

SPEAKER_01: 9:16

Yeah, yeah, and hopefully, hopefully it will at one point. I think that uh at this point, just because you know private companies are better funded than the public system, the the system is starting more with public companies, but the public system is also interested in in adding technology, and I think at one point they will. It's more difficult when when you have a country where around 30% of people basically consume like 70% of the healthcare resources, which because they're in the in the in the private plan. The public plan has to deal with a huge amount of people, close to 150 million people, with very little resources. So it's more difficult for the for the for the public system to actually capture that. But they will. And they are the ones that can benefit more.

SPEAKER_00: 10:03

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you know, that's the same with Brazil, the United States, they do have large populations. That's what we got in common. They all they both are at the over uh the centi million million marks. So people will forget that. You know, look, Brazil's a very large nation, you know, it's own Amazon rainforest, all that. You know, Brazil's important. I mean, all countries are important, you know, let's just be clear. Um, you know, but there's just there, you know, there's things that you know, people you know, don't don't dismiss, you know, just because I'm talking about Brazil doesn't relate to you. So, you know, there are some relations. You know, once the Amazon rainforest is destroyed, you know, don't be surprised if oxygen and air quality will will you know fall apart, you know, but you know, that's a whole other issue. But my point is don't just don't just neglect, you know, let's go talk about Brazil here. Oh, that's got nothing to do with me. Americans can still let's be honest. I love America, but sometimes we'd be so self-centered that all the countries don't matter as much.

SPEAKER_01: 10:58

I love America as well. I lived there for a while, studied there, uh you know, I have I I have a lot of love there. I think Brazil, Brazil, Brazil is a very, very large country, very sophisticated in some areas. It it's a little bit like two countries when you where you look at it, there's a lot of difference between the wealthy part of population and the less fortunate part of population. So when you when you look at that, uh you you have like a 30 million country of extremely sophisticated people. And when you think about that, that's the size of Spain or or or France or something like that. So you have a large country within Brazil that is very, very sophisticated, and then a huge amount of people, three times that, that has less less access to everything.

SPEAKER_00: 11:43

No, yeah, no, absolutely. And yeah, but the private health insurance part, that one you can make that connection right away because those of you got private health insurance, you know you have better outcomes, you're well funded, they're already, you know, doing AI implementation faster than those that are in more in a public system, you know. And that even applies to the United States as well. And if you guessed that, people, I'm gonna be a bit mean, you're not getting the prize, and that's an easy one to guess, okay? Yeah. But uh, yeah, go ahead if you want to add some.

SPEAKER_01: 12:13

No, I mean uh as in Brazil and the US in the in the private system, they work very similarly. Uh the the the systems are are are very, very similar. You have same companies playing in both um in both in both markets. So you have Luclaus Bruchil, for example, working in Brazil, you have BUPA working in the US and Brazil and and and others. It's just because the systems are so similar. And we are uh we're starting in Brazil just because we were here, and when you when you have you know large market and and good good funding like in Brazil, you you stay there for a while. But I think that you know there are companies that are doing similar things to what we are doing. And these are you know relatively new companies, startup companies like Collective Health. I admire what they're doing very much in the US. Or there are very old companies like Caisar Permanente, which are doing similar things to what we're doing as well. So I think you're gonna see technology evolving into very interesting places in both countries. And at the end of the day, the the fundamental problem why healthcare is not uh being able to scale as fast as we want is the same everywhere in the world. The system, the the organization of the system is different. But the the the main original problem is the fact that we organized the healthcare system in 1930, 1940. So Blue Close Rushil was founded around that time, 1930 something, I believe. And at that time, the main problem that humanity had were acute diseases. So most people were dying, more than half of people were dying of uh of an infection. So when you have that type of enemy in front, as someone that is very obvious, has very very clear symptoms, and and you can and you can find out immediately you organize in a certain way. That's why your doctor basically stays in in his or her office waiting for the patient to come, but that does that that makes sense only if the patient will go, right? And when you have an infection, you will go because you have pain, you have temperature, you have a general feeling of not feeling well. And but when you have diabetes, for example, that doesn't happen. You can you can have diabetes for sometimes decades without having any symptoms, so you don't go to the doctor. You have you can have blood pressure for a longer time, and you know, very famously you can have blood pressure for decades without having just no symptoms until one day you drop that. And so those things require a very different approach. You know, it's not enough for a doctor to wait for you to get there. You have to go out and monitor patients and make sure that they can deal with the complexities of the disease. The example of diabetes is very eye-opening. I mean, you look at diabetes, every hundred dollars that we spend in diabetes, about 33% of that is is doctors, is medication, and it's lab test. That we want to spend. But then you have about another third that is the patient actually made a mistake because it's complex to count carbohydrates, to understand what what type of insulin you need to use and when and all those things. They make mistakes, they end up getting into an emergency room or a hospitalization. Another third is because the patients actually made those mistakes so frequently in time, they develop another disease that that comes from diabetes, like a diabetic foot or retinopathy or things like that. So when you look at that, I believe every hundred dollars that we spend in diabetes, and a diabetic person in the US may spend something about$15,000 a year. So we're talking about$5,000 of that is good. It's something that we should spend.$10,000 of that is something that we should avoid. And the reason we don't avoid it is because the patients are very much alone all the time. We're not monitoring them. Now, very recently, in humanity terms terms, in the last 10 years, we've we've been seeing devices that can monitor people all the time. And we you know we all carry an Apple Watch or something like that all the time. But what would we do with that data? Pretty much nothing up until now. So for four or five years ago, we started having uh AI. So now you have something that you can play with. You have tons of data which you can actually get up in the cloud, and you have AI that can actually go through them and find people that should go to the doctor earlier than what we should. And that's what we have been doing for the past five years. So just to give you an idea of how something like that works, we monitor today's close to 100,000 people. And out of that, we make 96 million clinical inferences done through AI. Even if I had the whole population of doctors in Brazil, I wouldn't be able to make those inferences if I didn't do it through AI. Now, what do we do when we actually find someone that we think we should go should go to the doctor earlier than what is scheduled? Then we then we use a healthcare professional. So we send that that data to a nurse, which can focus on only about 5% of the population, which counts for actually 60 or 70% of the total spent that they're gonna have in healthcare. And I say expense, but it's it's it's in this in this market expense and and uh and suffering is the same, right? So you spend money when when the pay people are sick. So you could you could count as you know 60-70% of the suffering is in about 5%. The issue is that you don't know which 5% it is. So AI is helping us, as in the example I gave you of the traffic uh camps, to actually focus on the 5% that really count. And when you actually do that, we normally send people to the doctor something like 15% more. So it's it's baffling in some ways because we are we are spending more doctor time, but we're spending that time in the right people. So when you do that, the the expense for those people actually fall something around 40%. So when you compound the two, we are we are reducing healthcare costs for the total population by about 20%.

SPEAKER_00: 18:15

Oh yeah, no, that's that's another potential outsource. So maybe so maybe we could reduce healthcare, you know, waste, financial waste that you were talking about. And of course, the control on the cost is focused on uh one-third and the other two-thirds, we could reduce expenditures there, or maybe reallocate that to some to somewhere else where you know we could probably, I don't know, fund better machines or you know, whatever that could improve uh the healthcare outcome, or or improve people's you know, just health, you you know, and that's that's so yeah, that that that's great. And that's another thing I can see potential because there's a lot of waste. There's a lot of waste, you know. I'm not gonna say fraud. Fraud is not as common, but there's a lot of waste in healthcare.

SPEAKER_01: 18:57

Well, fraud is another area where AI, we we're not doing that, but there's another area where AI is actually getting a huge impact. There are companies, uh companies working between the providers and the health plans, understanding when there is fraud and fraud and and and other related things like bureaucracy and inefficiencies and mistakes, did those count for around 20% of total expenses. So there's a lot to be reduced there as well by using AI. But just to give you, I mean just to reinforce your point, I mean how much we can do with that, healthcare is is a$10 trillion issue in the world. It's a$10 trillion expense in the world. That's about the size of the energy market or about the size of the entertaining market. So it's it's huge. Uh it's it's one of the top three, four industries in in the world. And we are probably between between misuse of resources because of fraud and misallocations, and because of this thing that can can be avoided, we are probably wasting around fifty percent of that. So we are probably wasting five trillion. The WHO calculates that you need about 350 million to actually give reasonable, decent minimal care to every every people in the world that today doesn't have it. So you can imagine even a small dent in that inefficiency could actually make a much better world.

SPEAKER_00: 20:19

See people there there is hope. I know news like to give you give you a different perspective. Oh, this fraud is happening, you know, healthcare, healthcare, what's going on? There's corruption, blah, blah, blah. You know, you hear the the doom and gloom kind of hype. Especially, you know, one person created this fraud, and it could be a high-profile person or a rich person normally, or or a very clever criminal. Look, I think there's good hope, and this is why, as for AI implementation, I I'm a cautious optimist. I'm aware on some of its potential for danger, but as of now, we could use it just like all new this is what AI is not new. AI has been around decades before we started the knowing differences, and I'm gonna keep saying again, chat GPT just made it public. That's the difference that they did. They made it public for regular people to use AI. AI has been used on video games, calculators, uh, you know, way be much before Chat GPT, you know, and feel free to chime on that. It's more your expertise, you know. Don't think ChatGPT and perplex the old, they're just making AI more accessible to regular people who don't have a strong or hard tech background.

SPEAKER_01: 21:40

Yeah, we we we we had been doing things with you know with with smaller algorithms before. It is true all the the LLMs have actually been a revolution. So the the impact that we're having today is growing exponentially, but it has been around for a long time. I totally agree with you. I mean, that's a fact. The I think that you know I'm an I'm an optimist as well with with AI. I think that you know the dangers are there. I'm not as naive enough to see those. I think that it we need to have regulation on how we use these tools. We need to have, and especially in in in in healthcare, we we advocate for stronger regulation at this point. But in the meantime, I think that responsible companies have to use it in the right way. What what I was saying to you, we we we we don't we don't allow computers to diagnose a patient. We just tell you know a nurse or a doctor, this is what we think what what the algorithm is saying about this patient, just take a look. Nine times out of ten, the algorithm is right. Great, but one time out of ten is not. And that's the feedback we use to actually correct the algorithm. So eventually will we have algorithms that that can be left alone? Probably, but it's not the case today.

SPEAKER_00: 22:57

Oh no, absolutely. And I'm gonna I'm just gonna repeat what you said before. Doctors, nurses, healthcare, your jobs are safe. The only way you should be worried if your jobs are not safe, if you're either incompetent or refuse to adapt to trends, you know, that's something that I think that's solvable. You know, but that's more of you know that those are issues that was prior to massive AI implementation.

SPEAKER_01: 23:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, I I have a I have a daughter that is a doctor, actually. And uh she's she's she's graduated the first year after graduation. And I believe that we don't graduate enough doctors, to be honest with you. I bet to differ there. Well, who am I to to differ with Bill Gates? But I think Bill Gates basically says that you know we're not gonna need that as many doctors. I disagree with him. I think that we're gonna need more doctors in going forward. I think that there are a lot of issues that we can solve if we fund it the right way. We need to find these pockets of inefficiency to actually drive that money into places where healthcare can can can actually have more impact. And I'm sure he believes that as well. I mean, he does incredible things for healthcare around the world. But I think in that particular point of, you know, I think doctors are going away. I don't think so. I think they're really gonna actually more.

SPEAKER_00: 24:14

Oh, yeah, no. I mean, me, I actually would disagree with okay more things than that. I said, Well, you can't. I'm not gonna give you, I'm not gonna give you credit, you know, until you would have eradicated viruses to the computer, you know, always use that joke and say, okay, now you're doing you eradicate, you shall eradicate real viruses, or could contain them at least, but you could have you could have done you could not have done that in the digital digital world. I said, Bill Gates, I said, yeah, yeah, you're smart, you're brilliant. But yeah, I I I'm actually on your side on that one. We need more doctors, we need health care, and I will expand it first. We need more nurses, we we need more of healthcare staff, uh, even the the administrators, well, actually the administrator, I think that's the one I think AI could. That's the one I would say that's kind of danger. I would say I could see that along the way, the administrators, the co-coders and builders, I I could see those jobs going away. But doctors, nurses, anything that requires a human social therapeutic component, no, you you're you're safe. At least, I would say at least 10 plus years. Yeah, those you're safe. And guess what? There are shortages in America. There they are healthcare. There's still some healthcare shortages, so we actually need you more than ever. You're in healthcare, you're you're not gonna be replaced by AI. You may work in companion with AI. I could see that, definitely for sure. But actually, if I'm seeing that implementation happening right now, well, are you gonna be replaced by AI? I know that's just like you said, that's the popular hype, very popular hype globally. But you're you're you're fine. Um, I I the ones I the ones I say that were ironically the most in danger are the tech workers that develop some of this. That's a big irony to me. And office workers, those I could understand some of the concerns. Like I said, unless you adapt, you know, adapt to the trends and the technology, you should be fine. But if you're gonna be a dinosaur, is oh no, AI is the devil, it's gonna kill me, I refuse to do this. Well, then you know, you just made the situation worse for yourself. Yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01: 26:23

I agree. I agree. Oh no, I agree. I think I think you're right. I think for for office workers and for tech workers, I think the funny stuff is we are able to cope with a lot less junior people, but we we still need the senior people. The the question is, what are we gonna do when the senior people retire? Because we are not gonna have junior people going up the ranks. That's uh it's I don't know the answer to that one, but that I definitely see is have happening.

SPEAKER_00: 26:47

You know, that's uh you know, I didn't even think about that, but that's that's so true. I think we we need to, I don't know, we need to reinvent the the career ladder or something, you know, especially thinking more long term. This is my problem with a lot of rarecade companies. There's some of them and some of them. They just think about now and step one, step two, and then they then they have no idea about step three, four, five. And although words some things so short-term, and that's why I get frustrated with America. I say, you don't know why China succeed on some metrics? Because they they think the long game, they have a plan for years and decades. Like, you know, let's say the United States would be very, very short-term oriented. And yeah, that's good if it's like emergencies or something that needs to be done urgently, but when it comes like long-term planning for growth, scaling, sustainability, that that's not good. I mean, we're gonna have problems like just like you say is true. But once they're gone, yeah, you won't have anyone.

SPEAKER_01: 27:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 27:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're gonna have a bunch, you gotta have a bunch of career void and job voids. And yeah, I agree. So start scaling them up. That's that that's the basic, that's the basic solution. I would say start start scaling them up. You know, have them prepare, you know, by the time this person uh will leave. You know, that's that's all that's all I can say. It's not a good idea.

SPEAKER_01: 28:06

I think the incentives actually are are complex there, right? Uh what you get is you know, if if you think right about the situation, you probably don't need junior programmers today, but you will need you know, mid-career senior programmers probably for a longer time. So maybe you need to have them anyway, train in some way and invest for the future. But if you do that, your IBITA for this quarter is going to go down, the market is gonna hit your stock, and your bonus is gonna be lower. So we probably need to think about the way we incentivize uh public companies and in general, our executives. But I think, you know, I'm I'm I'm not an expert there, but I I do see a problem.

SPEAKER_00: 28:43

Yeah, no, I yeah, I agree. I yeah, the incentive structure is completely, for lack of a better word, screwed up. I yeah, I agree. And that that's how that that's what motivates a lot of this this thinking and these actions are just yeah, it's good for now, but later on is well.

SPEAKER_01: 29:01

Yeah. If my bonus is now, then I've I worry about now, right? That's I think that's that's kind of the issue.

SPEAKER_00: 29:08

Exactly, exactly. So, eh? Well, well, I'm pretty this is the hypocritical part. Well, I ain't gonna worry too much about that. That's the company's problem. But you know, it's gonna affect GP and all that other stuff. But uh, you know, people just that's that's the especially American, some people they just think about now and you know, bonuses now, they probably think about that, whatever. Uh whatever you get to there, you know, go with the flow kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01: 29:32

Yeah. Yeah, it's it's the thinking that brought us the the climate issue as well. So you think we should have learned.

SPEAKER_00: 29:39

Although give me start with that one. We should have been learners way overdue, you know, and I always go back to this anecdotal personal example that I forgot what clean air felt like during the pandemic when there was no cars roaming the rounds like, wow, this is amazing. Look, this is the climate, the climate people are right here, you know. And I was, you know, if you would talk to me as a teenager, you would thought it was like far right. So I don't care, that's not my freaking problem. Uh you know, but no, but as well, I I don't want to say as you get older, I mean, if you decide to become more conscious and you want to be more involved with it, I would say like that, then yeah, and I start to become more conscious of all of this, especially your areas start getting filthier and things getting worse. Of course, you pay attention to that. Things get better, you become a little more naive and sometimes blind to some problems. So, yeah, I yeah, I mean, we need to uh he yeah, we gotta get it together because there's no second planet. I know Elon Musk is trying to send spaceships to create a second planet to Mars. Look, let's be honest, that's not gonna be done anytime soon. And I'm not waiting for that. So let's just try to get it right here. Because look, if we screw up Earth, right, we're gonna learn our lessons, and let's just say we successfully transfer all whatever remains of humanity to Mars. I think we're gonna continue the same destructive crap and destroy Mars. What we're gonna go to Jupiter next?

unknown: 31:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 31:09

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That that's I mean that's that's just crazy. You don't have to you don't have to be a genius to know this. You just gotta pay attention and just know how humans operate. And look, I got more of a history background, so I have some ideas how humans would do, you know, do this, and so and I could pick up some patterns of of that. So this is why I could come up with these things. Look, it sounds crazy now, but we gotta try to get it right here. I'm not I'm not waiting, you know, I'm not waiting for that, and who I'll probably be dead by then. Uh once Mars becomes, you know, if Mars becomes the next the second planet for humans. I look, I believe that's possible. I'm about to I'm not gonna say it's not, but we let's try to get it right at Earth. That's my thing. Let's focus on Earth.

SPEAKER_01: 31:55

Well, most most studies say it's possible. The issue is again incentives, right? Uh so the the people people will need to let go of some things short-term to be able to do that. And so far, I don't think we have been very successful with that.

SPEAKER_00: 32:07

No, no, no, for sure. And Elon Musk, um critical view of a lot of things, but this one here, I give her great respect. I just look, let's try to get it right at Earth, and you know, and then once Earth is stabilized, and then I then I'll be more comfortable expanding humanity elsewhere, because we at least have we have proven as a species that we are not super destructive. Like recent human history just shows that we're careless and destructive. But we are trying to change that, right? With climate and healthcare and all, we're trying to change that. But I think the change is going too slow, if one my honest opinion. Yeah, yeah. Everyone believes that, I believe. So, alrighty then. Anything else you have about how AI could improve or technology could improve healthcare?

SPEAKER_01: 33:00

Oh, I think I think I think we're gonna see tremendous improvement going forward. I think that the next uh revolution, the one I've been very excited about, is molecular biology. I think there are companies uh in the US and Europe uh and and everywhere else, but some some in North America as well, that are getting very good models and understanding very basic biomarkers that you can take with a you know a few drops of blood and understanding a lot about what's going to affect you in the next future at all. So this is just starting. I think that you know the people that have access to this is very few. This is very expensive treatments for now, but prices are coming down, and I think we're gonna see that massive in the in the next five years. And I think that's that's gonna change tremendously the way the way we operate. And I think the diagnostics uh again is it's amazing. What are we doing with images and with with other other stuff? Computers are getting way better than humans in in that. Again, they don't replace the humans. Someone has to look at diagnostics, talk to the patient, uh, they make the decision, and that's uh that's yet not something AI is good for. But but you know, helping doctors make less errors, I think I think I think it's it's gonna be fantastic.

SPEAKER_00: 34:15

AI is excellent for scouring through massive data. Let's just be honest, the human brain just can process, right? So AI is great for them. And I agree, making less errors, having more predictive, I would say that you have biomarkers that will give you what five, ten years' lens about what diseases are gonna pop up with your based on your current trajectory, of course, uh what you're doing, you know, eating McDonald's, of course, you know, it's baffy, especially the American version of McDonald's, okay? It's filled with crap.

SPEAKER_01: 34:46

Um everywhere in the world is the same.

SPEAKER_00: 34:49

Oh, wow. Well see, see, I would not know that. But uh, yep. So, you know, McDonald's fast food in general is not good for you, but you know, at least you have a predictor. Oh, we got so much of this grease, this disease is gonna pop up.

SPEAKER_01: 35:00

Probably that is easy to predict. That that one is easy to predict. If you eat if you eat that type of food, you definitely are gonna get sick at one point.

SPEAKER_00: 35:07

But I think the one based on genetics, I think that's the one that's gonna be probably groundbreaking. Because you know it's set we some people are more susceptible to certain diseases based on genetics and history and all that. I think that would be that I that would be.

SPEAKER_01: 35:20

I agree. I think uh I think we we we see genetics a lot there. I think that the the the interesting thing is we're gonna start to see lifestyle and also choices reflected on biomarkers. Uh and at this point, as you know, I mean the the perfect uh it depends on on the disease, but roughly about 30% of any disease is genetic, and 70% is lifestyle, particularly in chronic diseases. So when you actually combine the two, you're gonna be able to predict, you know, way better things like cancer or or diabetes or blood high blood pressure or things like that.

SPEAKER_00: 35:53

Right, I have more customized health plans for that person. Of course, you know, with the with the you know, regular, yeah, like you said, regular chronic disease like diabetes and all that. A lot of that is lifestyle. That's just let's just be done. Yeah, genetics may play a role, but a lot of it is just modern lifestyle, played a huge role to that. So, yeah, I agree. We have you know the the fundamentals, the normal plan plus, whatever is customizable on the side based on genetics and all that. So you might have to do a little more of let's see. Uh maybe you might recommend meditation. I I don't know, or maybe we're gonna say this one you should run more, you know, things like that, things like that, more customizable health plan, so you know, I mean they they kind of are, but sometimes they go by this general flame that uh everybody's like the same and all that. But some people burn fat faster than others, and some don't. And you know, and and if you go by gender and all of that, and then you know, well, they're already doing that. But they're you know, let's just use two two guys, one very chubby, and one very skinny, they eat the same food. But you know, however, but they're both gonna get diseases, but one looks healthy, the other one doesn't. And you know, you know, we get to we get to see, you know, just beyond what we what we can see physically with the biomarkets would be very, very, you know, very, very good. So I love that one I'm optimistic. So health, health, help healthcare's getting better, people. You know, I don't care what the news tells you. It's getting better. It's just that the news would rather you see, I don't know, a doctor kill someone and get you all scared, or something like that, or or a doctor rob million dollars, or a nurse to an elder out the window. You know, that's the stuff you that they they get from the news. Not the, you know, not not not. I mean, they rarely report positive stuff, so don't go to your news for your primary um source. Talk to someone you know, and even talk to your doctor. This is why you gotta talk to your doctor and and healthcare staff. They'll know what's going on more than these media companies, okay, generally speaking. So that's my that's my advice huge to to combat that doom and gloom narrative. Is it gonna be disruptive? Can it be messy to transition? Of course. But you but that that's that's with all major changes. It's gonna be disruptive, it's gonna be messy, and then we implement it, we get better and better and better. You know, the industrial revolution, that was very messy when that started. You know, a lot of people from their farms, they flocked to the cities, they was getting less farmers. You know, that was a very messy transition. I mean, we we went we this is not the first time humans are going through a massive change.

SPEAKER_01: 38:28

Yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, but everything gets messy at the beginning, and eventually we get more data and we understand, you know, what works, what doesn't. But I I you know I'm I'm very I'm very optimistic as you as you as you are on on where healthcare is going.

SPEAKER_00: 38:43

Yeah, so this, yeah, I yeah, that's why, you know, if you would talk to me as a teenager, I would I would have been a complete doom and gloom, kind of oh my goodness, the robots are gonna take over, Terminator's gonna cut my heart open and harvest it just to, I don't know, suck energy or things like that, you know. I used to believe that, but uh as you calm down, you think, you know, stop being brainwashed by movies, because movies is another thing that gives that negative impression that the robots are taking over, you know, and I mean not just Terminator, iRobot, love those films by the way. But the main point is they do give you a negative doom and gloom feel. Well, if we get so advanced that these robots you don't form a conscience, and then they take all this and oh then they tell the old their other units that, oh no, humans are the problem, they need to be removed. You know, that that's you know, sadly they're entertaining, but just be careful, just be careful kind of messages you absorbing. All right. So that I think a lot of it comes from that, and you know, in the media as well, and political channels that say oh be gonna lose your job and things like that, right? You're gonna be fine, and then those of you retiring, those of you that are retiring. Well, congrats. That's what I'm gonna say to you. Now you deserve that. So Alrighty then.

SPEAKER_01: 40:06

Yeah, I think I I I saw that that as a very independent thing for for a long, long time, to be honest with you. I I was a photographer for the best part of my life. And about three or four years ago, I decided that I I was I was doing a a degree in photography and some one of my my my teachers says, you know, I started finding things that I never found before. And I didn't know what to do with that. So I so one of my teachers basically told me, you know, why don't you try and get a curator that that you know drives you through what you are exploring. And I did that for over a year and something. It was hard. And eventually it turned into the body of work I wanted to show. And I've been doing some some some expositions since then, and they have been going very well. It's funny because uh I transitioned from film photography into digital photography about you know 30 years ago, and now it transitioned into AI-powered photography as well. And you know, the my my vision for for things have have actually become sharper. It's funny when you actually put AI in the right way into the into the into the system, you start getting things that you couldn't do before when you maybe had only in your head, and now now you can do that. But it's so so the the connection probably is is is technology and AI, but in in practice, I think you know you have have been doing that for for for longer than that. And uh and now now I'm just uh I'm I think I I became I become sort of an artist. I'm so uncomfortable saying that. But I do I do I do uh show uh show show my photographs uh you know every once in a while and sell a few. It's a good stuff. It it really complements who who you are and what you are. And you know, lately I've been writing as well, published a book. So I think I think in you know, in in some ways I I I become more of a complete a human being by by doing those things.

SPEAKER_00: 42:20

Okay, yeah, no, I what I read up on you is oh yeah, you have a deep photography, you know, yeah, you have a deep photography background. Yeah, you went from black and white to straight to A. I mean, it doesn't get more transitional than that, people. I mean, come come on. I mean me, well what I mean I mean I'm much younger, but yeah, what when I took pictures, yeah, this is what the last days of Kodak going to digital cameras, that's when I started. So, you know, I of course, and I mean for some reason, and I keep I keep getting this compliment because some people just say, wow, you you actually take great pictures because I was trying to angle it, and you know, I just do like very basic photography. I'm not gonna compete with with that artwork and all that. Look, don't I will not compete anyone on art. I suck, I'm appreciative of art, I can consume art, but me producing art, no, no, no luck. I you'll think a five-year-old did it. Between me and a five-year-old, you can't tell who did what who did what. If you see our artwork, oh, which one which what Elias did? What's what a five-year-old did? Oh, you probably can't tell. They both are silly, it's abstract, it's messy, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 43:35

Yeah. So I think I think I think that can be said for for many of the things that are hung on contemporary museums as well. I think that the main the main thing that we're seeing with contemporary art is not that much about technique, it's more about meaning and and what is behind that and what's the concept and things of that sort. So sometimes you don't have to dismiss uh you know a piece of art just because it looks like it would it could be done by a five-year-old, because there's a lot of more behind that.

SPEAKER_00: 44:02

Oh yeah, but that's the thing would be. I'm I'm such a traditionalist coach of art, and that's that and then I I don't want to be like hypocritical because I I don't want to be kind of hypocrite here, but uh I'm just gonna say, anyways, I appreciate art that's concrete, and you know, things like the Renaissance or sculpture, I mean things that it's like wow, that's that looks so amazing. And then sadly I do dismiss things as just abstract or something that look like a five-year-old um could do. And and and I had a very passionate debate with my art friend on that. I said, look, I'm more traditional, I'm over traditional. Look, I even I won't even say Lego is a legitimate art because you create something even abstract or concrete, I appreciate more concrete so I can identify the object and then just it just create my story from there. What's what's the phrase with with our what the beauties of the eye of the beholder kind of things? It's yeah, for me, it's just yeah, for me, I just appreciate more of that kind of art. But but I do but I do agree with you're saying it's more behind a meaning and a story, and as opposed to you know polished, nearly perfected techniques or that was used who built that rather painting or sculpture or bust, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_01: 45:21

For contemporary art, yes. I think uh and then there's nothing wrong with with not liking it. I think that you know you may like a few things, you may not like and other things. And there's nothing there's nothing particularly brainy about liking contemporary art, you may like it or not. I think that what I always tell my my friends, and I and I tend to to like contemporary art a lot, but but I understand people may not may not like it. And what I what I always tell them is, you know, try to understand what the artist try to do there. And if you understand it that you don't like it, that's great. Uh you don't have to. What I think what I think it's it's it's important is not to dismiss it without understanding it.

SPEAKER_00: 45:57

Yeah, you see that see that's I just sometimes dismiss it out right now. So I'm not a big fan of uh the museum of Martin Earth, and I'm more a fan of the National Museum or even or even the Met Metropolitan Museum, which is a very famous uh museum that has a lot of lot of it it's you know based on people's preferences and and and tastes. And I I didn't I you know that's the thing with me. I read, even though I don't like it, I read you know the little captions just to try to understand why they made this. And especially for contemporary art. But yeah, I they you know the artist was trying to do this, the artist felt a certain way, they want to project it, well, I don't know, sorrow, sadness, or person who's ADHD. I think that's good for ADHD because you know mentally their brains are going through so much hyperactivity and disorganization, right? I was okay. I understand that. I don't like it, but I understand it now.

SPEAKER_01: 46:58

That's perfectly fine. I mean, you know you you can see a Pollock, and many people would basically say, you know, this can be done by a five-year-old, and maybe, maybe technically it's good. But you know, there's there's there's something behind that, and you may like it or you may not like it. I mean, you're not you're not forced to like it just because he's famous.

SPEAKER_00: 47:17

Oh, yeah, no, oh, absolutely. And people just make sure you don't feel pressures because it's famous, and just make sure it's not all in your head, because sometimes we react you know, stuff that's just in our head as if it's just reality. You know, you don't have to like it just because it's very famous, you know, Mona Lisa, some people may think that's trash, and that's a very famous you know, art painting. You know, me, I find it interesting. I don't think it's a it's the best, but hey, you know, that's what makes art very, very, very interesting, right? It expresses the human creativity, individualism. Yeah, it's very, it's very interesting. Yeah, it's very it's very interesting stuff for for sure. It's yeah, for me, yeah, I I but thing, you know what art I do tend to like too. This is like skipping over that whole abstract thing is digital art, I mean, especially done by that's amazing stuff. I mean, I could just sit there. I mean, I went to one one, I'm gonna be very brief about because I want to hear about your your work on that as well. That I went to a very recent art exhibit that they used digital projection, all that so well. I didn't realize I was sitting there still enjoying it for 30 minutes straight. It felt like it was five minutes. I mean the the lights, the music, I mean everything just going together to me is to seem like a cohesive. I just think my brain just likes to sort, likes to find something that's cohesive, thematic. That's how my brain works. And abstract doesn't always provide that for me right away. I think that's why I tend to dismiss it. That's just that's just a my self-analysis. But yeah, digital art is actually really amazing.

SPEAKER_01: 48:56

I agree, I agree. Yeah, I've I've I've I've seen incredible things done in in digital art. And the beauty of that is you sometimes you don't even have to go to a museum to do that. You can go to a website and see it, and uh and that's that's very, you know, very, very democratic. You can you can big saying it to everyone at the same time. It's it's very, very good. But you know, maybe maybe you're not gonna like my my my photographs as much because they tend to be very abstract. But uh in any case, for me they make a lot of sense and it has been has been a great experience.

SPEAKER_00: 49:25

Oh yeah, no, I I was I was looking at it. You know what got me interested about just like you said, this is strengthen your point, getting to your behind the scenes. And for some reason, I normally would not like the abstract art, you're right. But when I saw your behind the scenes, I said, oh wow, you actually put a lot of effort and creativity.

SPEAKER_01: 49:50

Thank you. Thank you. Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 49:51

No, I was seeing like and trust me, yeah, he has a he has a huge collection, people. I'm gonna link I'm gonna link that that site on the description because you need to see this people. You know, I look we buy I we even love to have a little all artistic, healthy debate. Um, do you like this? Is abstract art really art, or is it only traditional art, or is it the other way? Or you know, the things like that, or do just frame it a certain way, have a artistic debate about I'm gonna be crazy to say this. Why is these pictures that Mariano produced could be better than the statue of David or Mona Lisa? Wait, no, that's fine. I was just saying craziness. Um some commenters might. Let's let's sort of have the comment section. Some might be willing to do that. That's a common activity right there. Let's see, you probably be brave enough. Oh, you know, the statue of David just shows a naked man, that's gross. At least this is clean R. There you go. There you go.

SPEAKER_01: 50:54

That'd be that'd be that would be very interesting to read. I just just just for the record, I disagree with that. I think David is much better than my stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 51:03

But you know, but you know, I'm hey, I'm just thinking how how this this could work. Crazy, yes, but I'm only I'm willing to entertain it. Uh, you know, crazy crazy is a secondary brand of this podcast. So hey, if if if you could if you could you know debate that, I give you great respect, comment section, and I'll actually even give you a shout out. Just saying, you know, we'll you know, hey, you know, look, we have a generation of people that just think a lot of this traditional stuff is crap. So there might be uh might be a fan base, might be, you know, you know, you already know my opinion is, so we we'll see. Let's see, though. But but really check his artwork out. You don't need my you don't need my stamp of approval, okay? I'm not an artist, and I will never be an artist. Um so you know, I'm just a guy yelling at the mic when it comes to the artistic things, and you call me a conservative snob on that, and I I'll I'll happily take it. But you know, the the the check is work out because I just appreciate the effort you put into it. I think it makes me appreciate it more. So it actually backs your point up, which I was trying not to, but hey, where was the one I was looking at? Yeah, there was a lot of the let me go back to the works. All right, yeah. But I don't know, yours is not the most I can kind of see it. It looks like one of them looks like buildings. Oh the shaking pressure, for example. I want to see see that that's not the most abstract. I mean, my definition of Yabi, oh yeah, this one's really abstract. The untied, oh yeah, that one I I would definitely skip in a heartbeat.

SPEAKER_01: 52:39

Um, yeah, there are there are more abstract, less abstract in that collection. I think it's it it tries to represent mostly Sao Paulo. I think most of that collection was was taken in it was shooting shot in San Paulo, although there are there are pictures there in Barcelona and other places. But most of that is like a big city when when we put it together. I think there are some pictures. That was kind of the the idea. So you see a lot of pictures there that actually you can you can identify buildings or lights or or bridges or things like that.

SPEAKER_00: 53:22

Yeah, so you see, see, so you're not hardcore. I okay, I won't say you're definitely not hardcore abstract. Hardcore abstract is the ones I dismiss immediately. It looks like scribble scrabbles and all that kind of stuff. You know, I would read it pretty quickly. Okay. But that one, yeah, you're you're you're kind of you're I yeah, I just see abstract, but I don't know. I just I don't know. I think you're exposing something. I think you're exposing my hypocrisy. I don't mind to me, I'm not gonna die if this gets exposed. I just think I think I think I think dark abstract is more interesting to me because a lot of abstract uses kindergarten colors. I'm beginning to realize like a lot of my criticized have you know like the yellow, the blue, the you know, it look like just little scribble scrambles. If I if I see a childish, I dismiss it. But yours is more, it has like technological aspects to it, like a little little bit of it, and then I see like dark colors, I see contrasting colors. That interests me more, yeah, actually. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 54:23

I don't think I think I think in terms of abstract when I create one of those, I I I think more that that series is about hyperobject and you know trying to find you know how everyday objects actually affect time and space beyond what we can we can see barely. So you will see that there's a lot of you know overlapping takes one over the other just to symbolize the amount of uh of time that is passing and the way the way things are are are being being changed by by the passage of time. So I think that that was was was more in my mind than being abstract or concrete, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_00: 55:01

Oh no, absolutely no. I don't think you know I'm just thinking artists who want to create their work based on the expression, what they see, and I'm surely not thinking abstract and all that. That's my thinking, that's my lens. When I look at art, you know, let's just be clear. Listen, that's just my lens. You can have your own lens. Maybe you like a certain theme, or maybe you like um, I don't know, more paint oil, whatever, right? Me, I I tend to look at things like that, but that's a more interesting kind of abstract. I mean, I gotta kind of reevaluate because before I would just say I would have rejected generally abstract work, but since you're using dark and light color, I see you're constantly using contrasting colors gravitate towards that. See, I didn't think about that before. I really didn't. I really didn't think about how contrasting colors are gonna affect my attention span to that because a lot of them, if you go to the uh yes, some some of the moment has used it, but I could dismiss this child's work because to me the the dark quality is not there and it's dull, and I just some of it, I'm gonna say even lazy, but that that's just my opinion. And some people can say, oh, this is absolutely fantastic, this is creative, this is innovative, blah, blah, blah, blah. And that's you know, and that's fine. And you know, like I say, and again, I'm gonna have to repeat this. Disagreement does not equal hate.

SPEAKER_01: 56:23

Of course, of course. I mean, that's that's perfectly fine. I mean, I I don't think there is one single art piece in the world that would be universally loved. And if there is, we we should do something about it, because the part of the art is creating the discussion, right?

SPEAKER_00: 56:37

Oh no, I agree. And I probably want to few times I say, uh, we gotta examine this. Is it making people is it hijacking them, you know, biometrically just saying, oh, you love it? Yeah, I agree. I'll I and I'll probably even ban it. I agree with that. No, the art is supposed to create discussion, provoke thoughts, or even expose something that that it was there subconsciously, but you was but you weren't aware of like like this is a very good example. Normally I will dismiss art and I realize a pattern. If it's light kindergarten like colors, or I mean my kindergarten like colors, I see like just yellow, blue, green, red, orange. And you just do scribble scrabbles. You know what I'm talking about. Those I will, I would, I will immediately I will immediately just dismiss something and pay attention to. But if I see some light and dark, to me, I can see it's like these use of time and space. And you know, I was subconsciously thinking so maybe something to do with time and space, you know, how things change, or maybe it's disintegrating, but you know, maybe that's not your intention, but that could be my interpretation of it. That's the thing. Create got their intent, and the consumer got their own interpretation. That's what makes art very, very interesting. It's not, you know, just fact, you know, it's not a fact kind of thing as oh, you know, objectively, my art is better than yours. If I say that I want drugs, even though I've created no art. I don't think there's such a thing. You know, so let's you know, you know, you you know I'm going crazy if I say something like that. But um no, but the the see you see see, this is this is a thing. And look, I I I like it, and because you see, I I was able even to get some concrete connections.

SPEAKER_01: 58:16

That's great. That's great.

SPEAKER_00: 58:18

So you know, is it gonna be my most favorite art? Yes, no, but it is interesting at least, and that's enough to get my attention. It doesn't have to be freaking, you know. I know I thought it's the standard of Renaissance, because that's the only thing that a lot of people could identify as. But there could be very great art that doesn't have, you know, that kind of attention. And I've seen some of them myself that doesn't have the kind of fame, like the Satchel David and the Mona Lisa's, you know, and I've seen some African artwork, it's very good stuff. You know, so that that that needs more attention, but that's just that's a whole nother beast for another thing. That's just yeah, look, then look, art is interesting people, and look, I'm I will never produce art, but but I am an appreciator of art. I appreciate it, and you know, because it does add, generally speaking, whether I like it or not, to me that's secondary, it adds a personality, it adds you know, something to something to it could be to city, museum, it does add something. I I'll have you know some respect for that. You know, I'll just say, um, some of my kind of art, but hey, if it's making you know, art makes the place better in its way, because it just gives us a look, pay attention, it's not causing violence, and that's more of a political ad, right? So that's the thing with art. It it's it's our good side. You know, that's the general fact of it. Look, comment section if you wanna if you want to debate that, that's fine. You just put that down in the comment section. But if you're gonna be spicy or very controversial, wait for this to come up rumble, then you'd be spicy. You have a lot less chance of getting. Censor. YouTube censors you, I don't. Okay. So anything else you want to add before I wrap this up?

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:08

I think I think it was a great conversation. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:11

Oh yeah, no, I no, I've definitely looked, I'm learning all these conversations, believe it or not, I am learning something. And look, I will just say the future is getting better. I know the news and the political chances, such as I tell you some of the doom and gloom because I have to be informed politically about what's going on. But the world, I just think the world is getting to a uh, I would say a better place. We're being more aware spiritually, that's a good thing. You know, people is appreciating all these kind of different arts, and you know, art keeps evolving. Look, art, art, I can never predict what art could do next. Okay. I can never I can never predict that. You know, digital photography, look, I didn't think that was gonna be be great, and it'll be great. So, you know, art art to me is most unpredictable, but it's a delightful kind of unpredictability. It's a delightful kind. For me at least. So all right, people. So follow Mariano Garcia Villano, and I'll link his website and his he's a very professional person. You know, he has a LinkedIn page, so you're not gonna yell at him at Reddit. You're not gonna make you, you know, you might make you might tell Bad Bile, but look, I'm I I don't encourage that because he hasn't done anything that would encourage that, at least not in this conversation. So look, he's too professional for all that other crazy social media stuff, you know, and so the are pretty talks. Like Reddit, Reddit is the worst. You you have to be angry to be a Reddit user. You just that's the only requirement and just type the keyboard. Ken, yeah, that's the one that, yeah, you're in social media, but that's the most professional kind of social media, as opposed to a Facebook, a YouTube. YouTube, you can even say it has a professional space as well. But but you know, it's for creating videos and trying to get famous. But you could make the same argument for TikTok and Instagram as well. Um so there you go. You only gotta link these very professional, free contact him there. If you got any questions or want to interview him, yep, link that in the description. And definitely his website, mgarcia valino at dot com. And that's that's his artwork. Okay, that's what we was talking about. I was just scratching the surface there. I want to give you all the descriptions. I want you to have your time, where you have leisure time, where you're not busy driving or exercising, look for that artwork. It's a big collection, and it's accessible. You don't have to go to the Museum of Modern Art or MoMA for short. Okay, so it's free as long as you have a working computer and the internet, that's the only requirement. And most of us has that. I mean, that that's all because I mean it can't be more accessible than that, right? Just you just can't. Alrighty then. So now for my plugin. For politically high tech, like, comment, subscribe, give an honest review. If it's a five-star, give at least one reason why the episode's great. And if it's a four-star or less, how can I improve? It give me one specific way to improve. Don't just say, oh, this episode's great or you suck. That doesn't help. I even reject empty compliments. Yes, I do. Oh, this episode's great. How is it great? I want specifics. Okay? I want specifics. It shouldn't be that hard for you to to express that, okay? And I only so far I won't even pay attention to Apple Podcasts. That's where people are dumping the reviews at. If a lot of you flock to Spotify, then I will pay attention to Spotify. But for the time being, I don't really care that much. So, and oh, and some freebies for you. Join a new paper. That's news without the political spin. It's short, it's straight to the point. You get to your sports, stocks, whatever the news reports, but in short, digestible, you know, form. Okay. It's just I think the longest read is five minutes if you read through all the sections. But if you're only cherry-picking one or two, that's gonna be like a one or two-minute read. It's very short. It's pretty short stuff, but it's without the political spin. You know, you're not gonna hear the left wing, the right-wing version, or even the center version of that coverage. Okay, and another one, joint pod match. That's how I was able to meet Mariano. Joint Pod match. It's easy, it's organized, and you know, you don't have to dig through a crazy amount of emails. And look, sometimes we don't have time for that. I'm sure Mariano's a very busy man. I'm a very busy man. We don't got time to click all this conversation, you gotta read through all these threads unless we absolutely have to. So pod match, you could cut that down significantly. You know, one pager, completely customizable, you make a mistake, you just click certain buttons, erase, that's it. Save it, boom. It's updated immediately, as opposed to PDF your whole one pager, and then you gotta redo it again through another software, and then you gotta send PDF. Come on. Be smart, people. Be smart. Join pop match, and you can find guests and what and what shows you want to be on, okay? Podcast shows. So join pot match. Just give give give it a chance, at least. Give it a chance. That's all I'm gonna say about that. And then the final one, the most coolest one. If you have a crappy website or you want to or you don't have one, I have the link right there, the free website guys. Low to like practically free to low-cost website, right? You could click that. Once you click that link, you'll be helping this podcast a lot without you breaking your wallet, believe it or not. So if you wanna without you, if you want to avoid giving me a$3 a month donation, you could do that. Click the free website, guys. They'd be very generous, they're very helpful. But if you are, if your tech is not that great, you know, if you're bad at making a website, well, that team is there for you. And they'll give you, they go every step of the way, they don't pressure you, they work with you. Very good. They're very good people, okay? And I use them. So, and you're gonna see a website coming out really, really soon for politically high tech. It's gonna be a nice website that represents, you know, blue for Democrats, red for Republicans, and purple for independent, okay? So, and that is it for you. So, finally, with this beautiful wrap-up, when you complete this visual or audio journey, you have a blessed day, afternoon, or night.