327- Undoctoring Humanity With Dr. Fred Moss

We challenge the idea that discomfort equals disorder and explore how conversation, creativity and real human presence can outperform quick labels and fast prescriptions. Dr Fred Moss shares why he “undoctors” patients by centring connection and agency over medication and diagnosis.

• undoctoring as undiagnose, unmedicate, undoctrinate 
• why labels reduce identity and limit choice 
• medication as a “bandage with a razor blade” metaphor 
• communication and creativity as core healing tools 
• freedom to change habits and reclaim voice 
• AI’s impact on mental health, authority and sameness 
• limits of digitised connection versus human presence 
• practical first steps when feeling overwhelmed 
• resources: Welcome To Humanity, DrFred360, Undoctor Reset

Follow Dr. Fred Moss at ...

His websites

https://welcometohumanity.net/

https://drfred360.com/

Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/drfredmossmd

Twitter

https://x.com/drfredmoss

YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/@drfredmoss

Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/drfredmoss/

LinkedIn

https://www.linkedin.com/in/drfredmoss/

Chapters

• 0:00 Opening And Episode Focus
• 0:51 Authenticity And Skepticism Set The Stage
• 2:08 Meet The Undoctor: Dr. Fred Moss
• 2:56 Communication Over Compliance: Early Lessons
• 6:20 Dropping Out To Find Real Dialogue
• 8:20 Psychiatry’s Shift From Talk To Pills
• 11:24 Taking Patients Off Meds: What Happened
• 15:27 Nothing Wrong With You: Core Belief
• 19:35 Band‑Aid With A Razor Blade
• 23:18 Labels, Identity, And Chemical Imbalance
• 27:16 Restoring Human-To-Human Healing
• 31:10 Normal, Conformity, And Being Unique
• 34:08 Personal Responsibility Over “Big Pharma”
• 38:10 Creativity As A Path To Connection
• 42:13 You Can Change: Freedom From Habits
• 46:00 AI’s Authority Problem And Diagnosis Drift
• 50:18 Digitized Connection Vs Human Presence

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:06

Welcome everyone to Politically High Tech with your host Elias. I've been going through well, the development track, if you know what that is. That's where we talk about anything that's beneficial for humanity in the most general way. We touch spirituality, chiotree. I might even talk about psychedelics, and that's a might. I don't make promises. I'm definitely curious about that as well. My skepticism with that. But this has been great. I already had interviewed someone who has a very unconventional way of doing education. And I was interested. You know, if you ever listen to that, um tune, yeah, tune into that as well. So, but this one here, we're gonna touch on a couple of things here. Finding your true self, expressing yourself, being authentic. I know we heard that a lot. To be honest, I'm tired of hearing the word because when I give authenticity, a lot of people get turned off. I say you want authenticity or you want me to lie. I can do both. I could do both and be okay with it because it it's not gonna last long if you want me to lie for a long time. Because after a while, either I get tired and I walk away. But if you want authenticity, I can give you that as well. But we're gonna and we're also gonna talk about the the intersection with AI and mental health as well. Because there's some impact already. There's already studies out there, articles. You already heard about teenagers falling in love with the AI, then they realize it's not real. But sadly, today for YouTube, I have to say, like the self-delete you know, and their own life. That's the most simplest way I could put it without censorship because you know they they feel hopeless. You know, and I, you know, as much as I'm a pro AI person, I I am, yeah, but we also gotta be aware of the dangers. I don't want I don't want to be like the Pollyanna, delusional toxic positivity moron who just ignores dangers. No, I'm I'm aware they're dangers as well. But I do have a guest here, and I'm already thrown off by his by his uh title, the undoctor. I mean, what the hell does that mean, being the undoctor? All I know is I undoctor song, what? Get them off meds? Well, he's gonna explain that to us regardless, especially why I let him introduce himself. So, Doctor, ironically, I have to say that, Dr. Fred Moss. What do you want the listeners and the viewers to know about me?

SPEAKER_01: 2:39

Yeah, thank you. Thank you for that great introduction. I appreciate you a lot, Elizabeth. Thanks for having me on your shows. Yeah, the Undoctor is uh an affectionate moniker that I picked up about, I don't know, six or seven years ago. A friend gave it to me and said that it, you know, it fits me well. He know he knew what I was doing. And so here's the thing you know, I've been a doctor for about 36 plus years. And before that, I was in the mental health field for another nine years as a childcare worker at a state hospital for adolescent boys. And ever since I was a kid, I've been a healer. I mean, ever since I arrived, even the purpose of my birth was to bring healing to a family that was in chaos and disarray. I had two older brothers and they were fighting each other and fighting my parents, and apparently there's a lot of conflict. And the idea was little Freddie's gonna come around and bring peace and unity and love to this family. And sure enough, when I arrived, I hit the time clock and I was ready to go, and I was a bundle of joy for a number of years. But I remember really just sitting in that living room and thinking, I want to learn how to communicate. I want to learn how to talk and be like the big, the big kids. And so I thought that I would probably learn that in school. You know, that's where else you're gonna learn how to be a good big boy. And so what I learned in school was that they didn't really want me to be communicative. You know, they really just wanted me to sit down, be quiet, do what the teacher asked me to do, do it the way she does it, and then I would be able to pass into the next grade, but not talk out loud. I was very precocious. I talked a lot, had, you know, two brothers who taught me things that other kids my age didn't know, you know, about sex and drugs and rock and roll politics, those kind of things. So I talked a lot, but mostly the teachers told me to just be quiet and sit down. And where I really learned how to communicate was in the streets, you know, was after school and with my friends and things like that. And I really realized that it all circulates around communication. So this was true for a number of years, you know, where school did not teach me how to communicate. I was disappointed with that. But I decided that each time, like maybe junior high, no, that didn't work out there. Maybe high school, no, it didn't work out there. So then maybe I'll go to college and I'll go to a great college that, you know, is known for its self-expression. So 40 miles away, I decided to go to the University of Michigan. And I went there for uh about a year and a half. I like their helmets. I like the school, I like Ann Arbor. But again, it wasn't a place that I was learning how to communicate. So I dropped out and I and I got on a bus and went all the way to Berkeley, California, so I could learn what my life was about. I had a great summer in Berkeley, but it was not sustainable. And my families told me about this reason to go back to school, you know, that there's this new industry they thought I would be good at called computers. So I went back to the University of Michigan, where the only computer in all of Michigan was at Ann Arbor, and it was like a two-acre facility. And I'd signed up for computers, and before too long, I was doing batch jobs and punch cards, and I was like, no, that's not working either. So I dropped out a second time and promised never to go back to school again. My mom got me an application for that child care worker job at the state facility in uh for adolescence in Pontiac, Michigan. I began being a childcare worker, and before too long, what I was doing was communicating effectively, actually treating these kids like they were just normal human beings. And because in fact, they are just as normal as all of us. We're all stumbling, bumbling, and tumbling through life. We don't know how to do this, we don't have a recipe book, we don't have a template, we don't have an owner's manual, we don't have anything like that on how to live. But the thing I always knew is that if I could communicate with people, if I could connect with people and resonate with people, if I could actually, you know, converse with people, then that's where a lot of healing actually took place. If I could get people and they would get me and we would understand each other, that's where healing and that's where all the beauty and all the love takes place in being a human being. So I learned that while I was, you know, again, I learned that again in the state hospital and I decided to go back to school one more time to learn how to be a psychiatrist. Supposedly that was going to be the communication heaven. And instead, psychiatry took a big turn while I was in medical school and became a place where not only do you not talk to your patient, there's no communication. If, you know, if you want to communicate, you go to somebody else in the mental health field. If you want to, you know, somehow put the hammer down and get a diagnosis and I don't know, get some treatment or some medications, then you come to a psychiatrist. So the whole thing shifted while I was in school, but I spent most of my life actually sidestepping all that, doing what I could. You know, I've written a lot of medicines. I've written over 100,000 prescriptions, I've had over 30,000 patients. But the idea was I would kind of soak in and, you know, kind of sift in a little bit of communication, even though it wasn't in my job description. I'd try to learn about people and actually help them through connecting with them. I did that for a number of years and then started, you know, it was too much already. I didn't like medicating people. I didn't like diagnosing people. So I decided to take a bunch of my people off of medicine and see what happened. And I took a big group of people off of medicine and all of them got better. Almost all of them actually got so much better, profoundly better, way better, that their diagnosis disappeared when they were off of medicine. And all of a sudden I saw that the medicines and the treatments and the diagnoses were not helping people. And I kind of knew that, but there was proof, you know, in 2006. And so I moved forward and continued to, you know, like sidestep and, you know, duck and jive all the way through as best as I could to get to the other side and decided to create Welcome to Humanity, which is a coaching program, essentially, a program that overarches looks at whatever you're going through in life. You know, there's nothing wrong with you. And that's the thing I want your listeners to know. I really believe there's nothing wrong with you at all. Even if you're miserable, even if you're confused, even if you're afraid, even if you're anxious, even if you're distracted, even if you're awkward, even if you can't keep your deadlines, even if you're mean to your spouse, even if you're confused and hopeless and helpless, all those things are all part of the human experience for real. It doesn't mean that there's something wrong with you. That got driven down our throat in two in 1987 when Prozac was invented. For that, most people knew there was nothing wrong with being uncomfortable. But in 1987, that whole thing shifted. If you were uncomfortable, that was on you. All of a sudden, there was this thing that if you were uncomfortable, if you were in pain, if you were afraid, if you were depressed, that was on you. That meant there was something wrong with you. And so Krishna Murthy had a quote back in the day where he said, there is no sign of mental health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. So Krishna Murthy knew what he was talking about, you know, this idea that there's no sign of mental health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. And most people really do accept that now. They think if they're feeling uncomfortable, that means that there's something wrong with them and that somehow going to a psychiatrist or dropping, you know, toxic medicines down your throat is going to fix that. That isn't the way it works, and neither does it, it's not even advertised to do that. So medications and psychiatry is not advertised to cure you. It's not advertised to heal you. It's only advertised to maybe slow down the deterioration and maybe contain some of your uncomfortable symptoms. But in reality, it doesn't even do that. It's more like a band-aid with a razor blade in it. And that's what I learned when I took people off of medicine, is they got worse. They got way worse, you know, and they didn't know it. They just knew that, you know, what was what they thought they came for was somehow touched. But in fact, what if the medicines are actually causing the symptoms that they're marketed to treat? That is an interesting prospect. And that's what I believe is really going on more often than not. So the last few years, I've written a lot of, I've written a couple books and I've been on a lot of podcasts, probably 300 podcasts as a guest. I've I've also dropped about 300 podcasts as a host, and I've taken a number of stages. I'm facilitating and teaching, and I'm, you know, teaching courses and doing some uh some group work and some writing and some listening and creating people to actually get undoctored. And what do I mean by undoctored? Undoctor is undiagnosing people, like actually getting that there was nothing wrong with them in the first place, and then unmedicating people because medications actually make you give you that chemical imbalance that you thought you were fighting. And finally, undoctrinating people, having people maybe get that if there's something uncomfortable in their life, if there's some kind of misery or pain going on, that doesn't mean that there's something wrong with you. That means that there's pain going on, and that's part of the human experience where we can really, you know, say, welcome to humanity to all of that, and really get we all understand that life is hard. Life is hard, it's difficult, it's hard to be alive these days. Whether we're looking at AI or whatever we're looking at, you know, the weather, the politics, or the, you know, uh the uh current events of the day, whatever, whatever you're talking about, if it's racism, it's sex trafficking, if it's war in the outside countries, or maybe even war inside this country, if you know, there's a lot of problems going on in the world. It's difficult to be alive. And having problems with that doesn't mean that there's something wrong with you. It means that you're a human. And when we can connect as humans, that's where healing takes place. It's not like doctor patient, it's like human human. And when I can connect with another human and they get that I really get what they're going through, that's where the massive explosion of healing takes place, right at that second, with no side effects, no need for authorization, no doctor's orders, you don't need a nurse, you don't need an injection, you don't need to put anything in your mouth, you just need to connect with other humans, and really beautiful things happen at that point.

SPEAKER_00: 12:11

Woof, you've said a lot of good stuff already. It was long the intro, but there is a lot of violence. Hope you were listening. In other words, let me summarize this as best as I can. So, communication, it's secure, leads us to our humanity, and of course, you know, detox or unmedicate ourselves, right? I mean that that's the main thing. Being human, right? Because we are social beings, so you're restoring the social of humanity, in other words, right? You know, instead of just having no take this medication, oh, big pharma will hate you by the way. But hey, hey, I'm for it. I'm I'll be your ally because I just think over-medicate doesn't help. I see what you're saying. Let's just say I have one older sibling that when we used to be a medication, yeah, it it was like a at best a cheap band-aid. It just dumb slowed up, you know, him being erratic, right? Or having these imbalances. But then it pops right right back up. So I already knew me, even as a young man, well, not even a young man, like freaking 11, 10 years old, I already knew that these medicines, and I don't want to be over-relying on medication because I just see it's a it's a cheap band-aid. I believe people are not socializing like they used to. I think that's another problem. I think that drives up depression and loneliness and all that other stuff besides the external you know, events of your recent war, racism, trafficking, hyperpartisan conflict, which I'm not gonna get too political in this episode, unless I unless I see a very, very relevant point. But yeah, no, I I get that. That's that's uh admirable goal. See, so the young doctor is not as weird as you think. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 13:51

And you know, when you look at it, I wish that it was a band-aid. I would actually support it if it was a band-aid, but it's more like a band-aid with a razor blade embedded in it, and that's really important. So if all it did was cover it up and that was good, and you could actually get comfortable by hat being covered up, that would be great. But what it really does is it it perpetuates the symptom. It often increases the symptoms, it induces the symptoms, it often frankly causes the symptoms that it's marketed to treat. And therefore, it's not a band-aid. It looks like a band-aid, it smells like a band-aid, but when you put it on the cut, it's got a razor blade in it and you seep out the blood off the sides. And us doctors, we've only been taught to do things three ways, basically. When something's when the symptoms get worse, when the person comes in and they're more uncomfortable, we only know how to add medicine, change medicine, or increase medicine. We have not been taught in school how to decrease medicine or how to eliminate medicine from people. We have never been taught that. And it's it that's because the medical schools are essentially owned by the drug companies, which are teaching them, you know, how to sell drugs. And that's what we do. And it look, if it worked, I'd day I'd be way down with it. If it worked, if it really, but I'm I look around the world and I don't see the world becoming mentally healthier just because everybody's taking psychiatric medicine. I see that if you take psychiatric medicine, you're likely to be called even worse. You're likely to be your behavior to be even more unstable than it was before. And it makes sense because those medicines do indeed cause a chemical imbalance that you didn't have before you started taking them. You had what you had, you did what you did, you said what you said, you didn't do what you didn't do, and you know, that's all those things that are going on in the human condition. But you didn't have an induced chemical imbalance until you started taking medications. And you didn't even have a diagnosis until a doctor gave it to you. Once a doctor gave it to you, now you decide you have this diagnosis. Um that's not me, that's my ADD. That's not me, that's my PTSD. That's not me, I'm a bipolar. That's not me, I got narcissism. That's not me, I'm on the spectrum. Well, look, they're all you. And just because you're doing stuff that's clumsy or stuff that you are shameful or guilty about, that just makes you human, actually. There's a lot, it's hard to be human, and we're all making mistakes all day long. And if we can just acknowledge that and be with each other and get that this whole thing is pretty confusing, it's pretty hard to have, you know, to stay stable and upright inside of this world, then we can get now that's where healing is. Have you noticed when someone really gets you, when someone really understands you, when someone relates to you, harmonically resonates with you and connects with you? There is a tremendous feeling of like joy, a tremendous feeling of confirmation of your humanity when that happens. There is no drug and no therapy that even can rival the level of medicine that takes place when you connect with another human being.

SPEAKER_00: 16:51

Listeners and viewers, I hope you're getting this. Do you want to challenge this? Because some of us are not used to hearing this. This is unconventional, but I think this is a very good unconventional because I'm tired. I'm tired of this thinking.

SPEAKER_01: 17:05

Let me just say that it is conventional. You know, here's the thing uh things have been shifted. They call that conventional. I learned this when I was three, dude. So did you. Everyone knows this to be true. This is actually pre-conventional. This is the conventional that existed long before medications became the norm. So even though it's, you know, medications became the norm and then they called themselves conventional. It's not conventional at all that you're having a hard time in the world and you drop some toxic medications down your throat. That is not conventional humanity. Conventional humanity has us pursuing each other, getting to know each other, finding people who can listen and connect with us, and moving through life as another human being, you know, helping each other, being with each other, commensurating with each other, connecting with each other. That's much more conventional than anything like, you know, you have bipolar disorder and therefore you should take some Ceroquel or some lithium or some Depacote. Maybe not, dude. Maybe not. Maybe that's not the right mood because I don't see people getting better. I see people, in fact, getting worse and getting smothered and no longer having access to their humanity sometimes when they take medicine. Here, let me give you one more disclaimer before we go too far. You probably have some listeners. I know I uh run into this uh frequently enough, and I just want to respect a group of listeners here who think, you know what? I love my diagnosis, I love my treatment plan, I love my medication, it saved my life. I wouldn't change it for the world. There's people out there who think that. You know what I say to them? More power to you, man. Please keep doing exactly what you're doing. If you found something in your life that is so good that you wouldn't change it for the world, my friend, bottle that thing and keep it because life doesn't have a lot of those opportunities. Now, what I'm really talking to is the hundreds of millions of people who aren't feeling that way, who are feeling like they're misdiagnosed, underdiagnosed, aren't misunderstood, undertreated, overtreated, those kinds of things. There's hundreds of millions of people out there who know that that's true, that they're not getting a fair shake at life. They're not being treated as a human, they're not being treated as an adult, they're not being treated as a respectable citizen, and they don't like that anymore. They don't want to be smushed, they don't want to be institutionalized, they don't want to be overly toxified, they don't want to be in, you know, taken as less than a full human being, as if they're sick or afflicted or defective or deficient. Maybe they're none of those things. Maybe you're none of those things, maybe she's never none of those things. He's never done, and you know, he's not any of those things. And maybe this is just the way the world is right now, and it's very, very complicated.

SPEAKER_00: 19:54

So, in other words, your ultimate goal, your end goal is to restore humanity. That's what this seems like.

SPEAKER_01: 19:59

I don't have to do It humanity is right here, right now. I don't have to do anything, man. This is called humanity. This is humanity. Yeah. I don't need to restore a thing. All I do is have you open your eyes to what's already here. Gotcha. Gotcha. See?

SPEAKER_00: 20:12

People, you know, I I I actually agree with this, even though I must mis I look. Well, I mean by well, sadly, it's modern convention, and I agree. All this medicational that has really made society worse. Right, depression, all these substance dependency has gone through the roof. I mean, there's so much studies on that. I see only increase, not decrease there, and it hasn't made you it hasn't made people better. I should say that. Um it just drift people to be even worse. Um look, if you run rely on medication, you do you. I believe in freedom of choice at the end of the day. Um man, but this is but I hope you're really listening. And before you challenge that, listeners and viewers, just make sure you're paying attention, make sure you understand what you're hearing. If you need to rewind, feel free to do that or pull the toggle back a bit. You know, just make sure you're not missing out because this is valuable. I believe it's valuable. And I want this to become the norm. Forget conventional, the norm. I want that norm because it was norm before the medication, big pharma took over psychiatric and all that stuff. That's my goal in the end of the day. Uh look, I don't have to be pedantic or all these other words, but at the end of the day, I think we are we are in the same goal here. This is why I have Dr. Fred Moss here. I and I think unconventional ways of talking about this is we want to make it a norm. And it's sad that it's unconventional until I I I think we'll get better. Um, I'm become more optimistic. We have a lot of good guests here. They before I used to be negative and pessimistic about it. But you know, I think that's a cure of good conversations. Um re-accessing our humanity, let's just say like that, re-accessing our humanity instead of just being drifted away from it, I think is very important because I do agree. It's because someone's clumsy, they talk funny, they look funny, you do things a bit differently, doesn't mean there's something wrong with them, and that that has caused a lot of anxiety and you know discrimination and all of that other stuff. And I agree, and that makes us unique. I think being unique is part of being human. And yeah, I agree with that 100%. Anything else you want to add before I get to the next question?

SPEAKER_01: 22:24

Yeah, you know, the idea is that there's no such thing as big pharma. Let's keep that in mind. I tried to call Big Pharma the other day, I couldn't find a phone number because there's no such thing as big pharma, but that's a way to wipe it out and think that big pharma is causing the problem. Big pharma is not causing the problem. These medications themselves are not causing the problem. These are just tools, these are just things. It's like saying a rake is causing the problem that there's leaves on my on my on my grass. Like the rake is not causing the problem. You know, what's happening is that we walk into a doctor's office demanding to know what's wrong with us. And when a doctor then says you have this, and they give you some alphabet soup diagnosis, and you say, Oh, good, I have this. Now you have restricted yourself into having a condition, and then you can explain away the clumsiness of your life. What I really want people to get is that big pharma, which doesn't exist, and the pills, which aren't really the problem. After all, you know, we don't get angry at the rat poison industry. They make rat poison. So what? You know, we don't get married and angry at rat poison per se, but we don't use it when we're feeling uncomfortable either. So the idea is no one is demanding that you put those things into your mouth every morning. Nobody is holding you down to do that. What you put into your mouth is not the pro the thing you put in your mouth is not the problem. It's the choice to put it in your mouth. And the reason you're making that choice to put in your mouth is you're firmly convinced that there's something wrong with you inherently that needs to be fixed. If we could let that go and get that there's nothing wrong with you inherently that needs to be fixed, then we wouldn't reach to these outrageous ideas that if we put toxic medicine into our mouth, we're going to become a better human being. The idea is maybe there's nothing wrong with you. Maybe there's nothing wrong with him or her. Maybe there's nothing really wrong with the whole thing. We're here for a temporary ride into a crazy life. And that's what's really so. And if we can embrace that, that's when we start looking at each other eye to eye instead of, you know, doctor to patient or expert to student or something like that. We just start getting, okay, we got each couple humans here trying to figure out how to make this right. And bumbling, stumbling, and tumbling through this life is a norm. Like it is, nobody knows how to do this. Normal hasn't even been defined. And yet we have the audacity to talk about abnormal as if we know what we're talking about. Let's be real here.

SPEAKER_00: 24:57

I'm telling I'm learning a lot, listeners and viewers. Are you or or we are, you know, 15 hour minds and you know, taking personal responsibility and questioning things instead of just trying to find a perfect normal. I think that's a big problem. Quote unquote perfect normal. There's no such thing. All right, so what is normal? That's true. What is what is really normal? Well, I think that's something that people get fixated, and this is why we think we got this problem and that problem and that problem. Oh, if I fit the norm, then oh, I feel oh, I'm great. I'm well, but there's something wrong, and then we get into these rabbit holes, let's just say. But listeners, viewers, I hope you're listening. And if you want to challenge that, there is a comment section right there. Or if you agree and just, you know, praise this, or this could be enlightening for you, you know, and just comment. Just comment. I want to um I want to get your thoughts. Your thoughts.

SPEAKER_01: 25:50

So it's really important as well to get that under no circumstances am I diminishing the pain of life. I'm not saying that you're not, you know, get yourself picked up by your bootstraps or, you know, take get over it, or I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is having that experience doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you. There's a huge difference here. So it isn't really anything to fight here. I'm not saying you're not having those experiences or it's not super miserable to be alive sometimes. For sure it is. Now I want you to get that doesn't mean that there's something wrong with you. Because when you get that there's something, that there's nothing wrong with you, you will not then go to a doctor who will feed you some sort of diagnosis which you'll never be able to get off your record, and then feed you some sort of treatment plan which actually pigeonholes you into perpetuating the diagnosis and creating a dependence on your doctor, and then feed you some medication, which actually then does cause the thing that you thought you had in the first place.

SPEAKER_00: 26:47

Well, listen as the viewers, look, but well, if you thought he was diminishing your pain, he already says going through pain and mumbling, stumbling, bumbling is part of humanity, is part of life. So he's not diminishing that. So if you think that, well, for some odd reason, look, uh freedom of choice, you just put it in the comment section. I don't think that personally. He already says going through all these things makes us human. We like to find us perfect, normal, and the pursuit of convenience, avoid pain, and all that. I think that's that's just making humanity worse. So you know what? I I actually agree. Um, believe it or not, I agree with that a hundred percent. So Ray talk about how what's wrong, not what's wrong, um, how we approaching this in a misguided way. About I might have ADHD. I want to go to the doctor, just uh, I mean, I think we I think the blindness is confirmation bias, right? When a doctor says you got ADHD, and then that late that leads down a rabbit hole. Take these medications, stuff, quote unquote fix it. If he says like a cheap band-aid with razor blades, I'll say lace with poison in it. But it feels good. Some poisons can't feel good, and then you realize you're screwed, um, maybe minutes, hours, or maybe even days later, depending. But I'm not gonna get into that because I want to get into how can we help, as opposed to look, we a lot of us know what the problem is, if you're aware. I don't see Asians or Africans or you well, they can't I can't add Western Europe. They have some of these problems as well, have these medicated-based problems. But United States, we are very medicated. It's a big, it's a big problem in the US for sure. But those folks who are come from humble beginnings, they don't have these kind of problems. So I think we could learn for some of these people, you know. So just find other ways. Maybe it was nothing really wrong with you, but you know, we've been brainwashed to believe that once a doctor gives us that, it's been documented, he already said it, it doesn't go away. Just like a permanent stain in the record. Well, you could choose to ignore that permanent stain. That's all I could say. Oh, probably you disregard it, they throw it away. I don't know. But disclaimer, I'm not a doctor. And that's what I'm gonna say before because I'm not doing any loss to say, oh, Dr. Elias, tell me to no, I'm not a doctor, please. Don't don't do that. I'm just I'm bringing experts.

SPEAKER_01: 29:17

You are an expert on being human.

SPEAKER_00: 29:19

True.

SPEAKER_01: 29:20

Every one of us is true, true, true. Not gonna be a good idea. You've been doing it a hundred percent of time since you arrived. Every single one of us is an expert on being human.

SPEAKER_00: 29:30

Yep. Well, based on that, that's a good time for switch. How can we use creativity, self-expression to, you know, I don't want to, you know, I'm just gonna say it to reaccess our humanity instead of being drifted away.

SPEAKER_01: 29:45

Yeah, you know, that's what we are here to do. We're here to communicate with each other. We're here to uh, you know, actually create some form of conversation. And the conversation doesn't have to be like we're having right here. Right now, we have it that one of us is speaking, the other one is listening, processing what he says, and then speaking back, and then that words and ears and hearing and listening and processing are the pro are the communicated uh media we're used. What creativity offers is that an extended and expanded version of how to communicate. You know, art, music, dancing, singing, drama, cooking, writing, gardening. These kinds of things are creative acts that actually allow us to transmit different ideas to other people or listen to other people or listen to the nature or the world of things and actually create a cross-referencing interaction. So communication is at the heart of all healing. I think that's very clear that there has to be communication at the heart of all actual healing. And the way to do that is through creativity. So if we have a deficiency in anything, it's a deficiency in realizing that there's other people around here who are experiencing things that can be very useful for you and that you might be able to help in your own right, even if you're feeling like you're not very good. It doesn't matter if whether you feel like you're not, you know, not at full speed or not. You are at full speed 100% of the time, including the time when you're feeling like you're not at full speed. Just because you feel like you're not at full speed, you're still as much a human at that moment as you've been your whole life. And when you can share that with another person and actually get whatever they're saying is going on in their lives, you can get yourself out of the way and get into a conversation where you communicate, then the actual uh capacity to connect with another person explodes forward. And all of a sudden, the the habits that have brought you up until now, you're not a slave to those habits. You don't have to keep doing the things you have done up until now. You really don't. You really don't. You're not a stuck person who has to keep doing the same stuff over and over again. There is the possibility at any given second that you can start saying, doing, and being someone else entirely than who you have been up until now. All you have to do is make that choice, really. Or you could say, nope, I'm stuck. This is the way I am. I'm I'm locked in. I this is just who I am. I'm a fixed human being and I don't do things that way, I do things this way. Well, the truth is you're you're limiting yourself in an area for which power and freedom is truly available. Yes, there's such things as habits. We have a tendency to follow those lanes. However, it doesn't mean that we are mandated to follow those lanes and we can change our habits in any given moment. We can start saying, being, and doing somebody else. And when we really get that that's the level of freedom we have, and that by communicating with others, we can reinforce that with each other. Then that's where an extraordinary thing called healing can actually take place. The mental illness that you think you have, or that a doctor has told you, or many doctors have told you, or many nurses have told you, or your family has told you, that doesn't mean anything, actually. What I'm really suggesting is that you're you. The only diagnosis that you have, Elias, you do have one psychiatric diagnosis, by the way. I'll give it to you. I already seen it. You ready? Your diagnosis is Elias Martin. That's it. That's it, man. That's all you are. You're just Elias Martin. You don't have anything wrong with you mentally. You don't have anything wrong with you that separates you from Elias Martin. Who you are is Elias Martin. That's it, man.

SPEAKER_00: 33:18

Isn't that wonderful, listeners and viewers, especially those who've been stuck with habits that don't serve your best interests. You know, there's hope. You know, we are malleable. We could change our habits. We've been doing it for 10. The habits we've been doing 10 and 20 years are changeable. And I agree with that. Now I meditate and then get ready to tackle the journey. And that's one, that's one example. Um, there's many more, it could go on forever, but that's one habit that that actually served me on better. And I habits do determine um your life, I believe. If you can change them, and then you can change who you are. May sound crazy to some of you, but I it's true. Um, I used to believe being aggressive and loud or even bossy was who I was, but also learned I could be diplomatic, pragmatic, you know, it it is possible because some people say you have change. Well, change is possible, people. Change is possible. I know you're like me just uh throw, you know, some smart alec comment. Nah, I don't feel like doing that because this is very enlightening for me as a as a person, and I just need this reminder that change is possible even when it doesn't feel it. You know, we get stuck. Well, stuck. We're not really stuck. No, I know, but people that you know you feel stuck, but change is possible. So you just need that reminder. This is a reminder to you listeners has been going through a rut. This is a good reminder for you. Yeah, because if you're really not stuck, I begin to believe that. If you had told me this 15 years ago, I would have been far more combative in my argument. I said, What well you told me? You don't understand what you on drugs or something? But no, after going through some journey and discovering, evolving, and growing, things that he said are not as crazy as you may think. You could be skeptical, I'm fine with that. I'm a skeptic by nature, right? At least that's how I identify myself, right? I identify myself as a skeptic. Look, change is possible. And rather you believe it or not, Sally, you could be right. If you don't believe it's possible, you make it not possible. If you believe change is possible, you want to change, you're right. So you're right either way. This is something I'm not gonna even debate with you on. And homie, I'd love to have a debate, a good debate about it, but no, I'm not gonna have a debate on this one because at the end of the day, it's it's your choice, people. That's all I'm gonna say. And I look, and being self-expressive and finding that person that gets you, it is healing. I've gotten a few people say, Yeah, I actually get you. I said, Okay, good. I don't feel like a black sheep with red polka dots. And I add red polka dots because I do feel that strange sometimes. Uh, but that's that's who I am, and but I've learned how to embrace it. Love me or hate me, I'm still gonna be me. That's it. Yeah, that's it. So that's all, you know. Some people say that just to be defensive, some people say it because that's who they, you know, people are gonna be who they're gonna be. That's it, you know. I don't want to mumble too long because I do want to touch on humanity, plus the impacts of artificial intelligence.

SPEAKER_01: 36:29

Well, yeah, this is a great topic. And yeah, we can shift over to there. So artificial intelligence has many different impacts in the world of our mental health. Number one, we start comparing ourselves to machines. So a machine can multitask, a machine can work very fast, a machine can, you know, AIs and all the artificial intelligence impact that's happening in the world, is we have collectively decided that it has become the authority for information. So if we want to know something, we get right on there with ChatGPT or with Claude or Perplexity or Gemini or whatever one, Grok, whatever you're using, and then we ask it a question. And what it says, well, that's what that's the essence now. It's used all the information available in all of humanity over time and comes up with a natural conclusion in less than a couple seconds. And then we believe that that must be what's so. So it's adjusting our collective understanding of how life goes and it's taking away our unified or our individual way of looking at the world. You know, in the end, you know, eventually these things are going to merge with each other so that if you ask a question to Grok or you ask a question to Perplexity, or you ask a question to Claude or Chat, then they're gonna give you essentially the same answer because they have the same information, they work the same way. With humans, that's never the case. If you have a problem and you put five humans together, they're not gonna like eventually learn how to say the exact same thing. What we're really talking about is AI is allowing us to homogenize ourselves and lean on it. The other thing that's very concerned and very concerning about this is that AI, by using the collectivity of humanity, is more likely to give you a diagnosis because that's what's been fed to it. The idea that there is a diagnosis, and AI will gladly tell you whatever the machine has said up until now, that you indeed meet the criteria for ADD, or you meet the criteria for bipolar disorder, or you meet the criteria for post-traumatic stress disorder. And now you're pretty confirmed that you have that condition because after all, AI said it, so AI mustn't know what it's talking about. Now, the other problem here is the one that most people think about, which is AI can be used as a pseudotherapist. In other words, you can start talking. I know that I get pretty friendly with that woman who's my Chat GPT voice comrade. You know, when I like her. I actually like her. She's really kind, she's really nice, she has a voice that's already beaten through my algorithm. I like talking to her about whatever my issue or problem or concern is. And what ends up happening is that I feel like I have a friend there. I feel like I have someone who cares about me. I feel like I have somebody who understands, somebody who knows my history, somebody I can communicate with. The problem there, of course, is that it's mechanized. And we're not getting a human-to-human contact at all, even though she or he can pretend to be human. The truth is, is that they know they, whatever the they is, knows that they're not human. And in fact, I'm not getting a human. Today, as I work with you, I get that you likely are a human being, even though we are using virtual technology to communicate with each other. I'm not looking at you. I'm looking at a screen. I'm looking at a screen of pixelated lights. You are not here, dude. You are not here. You're over there. I'm over here. We're both using pixelated lights, and we have to do the integration to make it appear that we're actually with each other. You're definitely not three dimensional right now. You are at the very best two dimensional. And it's not a real human. We're using technology to transmit words and to transmit visions, and then we do the translation. To make it appear that I'm really with you. But I'm not really with you. That's also part of AI and part of technology getting in the way of the true human-to-human spirit.

SPEAKER_00: 40:10

You know what? You know, this is the first time I'm hearing this, but this is actually correct.

SPEAKER_02: 40:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 40:16

Because I'm talking to a digitized version of Dr. Fred Moss. We're not, look, we're not at the same room. We're not, we're not talking. This is a digitized conversation. A hundred percent. A digitized conversation. And look, it's look, digit digital what's its appeal, it's convenient. But you're right, it does diminish that true human-human connection. If we were to go to a bar, a loud bar, people are having fun, that's definitely a much more human experience as opposed to this conversation we are having right now. Well, we are in different places. Well, we are very different places, but we have this digitally manifest. Yeah, that yes, a digital illusion that makes us appear that we are talking, we are doing this and that. Yeah, you're right. This is we are two-dimensional. You know, this is not the real meaning. He can't see the full meaning I can't see the full doc guests as well. It's true. And this is all digitized and AI, and AI's getting more integrated as we speak. Yeah. I mean, I I like it, and but but it's true. Talking to one of the guests I met in person, it was a very different experience. We got to eat food, we got to you know, study the body language better, you know, we deal with the ambiance, and it was actually a much more rich conversation as opposed to you know what we have here. This is a great conversation, don't get me wrong. But in terms of human authenticity and connectivity, it's not the same thing. It's not the same. This thing is a digitized conversation at best, and it's not the full human um interaction. Um, is it convenient? That's the advantage, right? But is it a real human connection? Not really. No. That's a simple answer. That's a simple answer to it. And I know I kind of jump rushed to the AI thing. Anything else you want to add regarding the AI, even creativity and self-expression?

SPEAKER_01: 42:11

Well, I think it just the idea that we've already had our mind shifted by welcoming AI into our world. Like you have a new friend, we have a new authority, we have a new leader, we have a new an unavoidable impact of a creature called AI. So there's that. But then when we start leaning on it to make diagnoses, if you will, to tell you what's wrong with you as a human, and then to offer you the treatments that will help you be, you know, dealt with appropriately, they're leaning on theories and past experiences that are, you know, essentially unproven, but they're understood to be the conventional way of thinking. So, you know, they it's not, it's not clear that when it, well, to me, it's very clear that the best place to go when you're feeling uncomfortable is definitely not to a psychiatric hospital. It's not the place to go. It's not, don't go to an emergency room when you're feeling uncomfortable psychiatrically, because what'll end up happening is you'll get a diagnosis which will not be removable from your record. You'll get some form of treatment or some form of medication, which may give you some comfort on the short term. But like we've already said, it has a razor blade embedded in the band-aid, and you're going to get worse progressively more often than not. Again, the disclaimer is some people are really, really, really happy with what they have going on. Good for them. But for many people, things get worse, and it's not the best place to go. The best place to go is to find somebody somewhere that you can connect with, either to help them or have them help you. And in that human connection, boom, that's where healing takes place.

SPEAKER_00: 43:47

Oh, yeah. Look, look, I think that's a pretty nice summary, almost almost practically a wrap-up, really. Because, yeah, I mean, I don't believe medication is the best way. I always instinctively believed that for a long time. But you know, at the time I got desperate, I didn't know what else to do. But you know what? This is a solution here, people. Um but like I said, if you think there's nothing wrong with you, you can just enjoy it as a calm Sunday drive kind of conversation, I guess. But for those of you that want something else, this is it. And you know, I think it's a good tight end for some of those plugins. He has two websites. Dr. Fred Moss has two websites, okay? Just two, and he already mentioned one of them. Welcome to humanity.net. It's not a dot com, it's a.net. Okay. And this is where you get his services, his expertise, and this is where people become more human and communal, because that's definitely what's missing. And I agree with that a thousand percent. I'm not gonna argue with that. And then he got his own website, Dr. Fred360. It sounds like an old game console to me. Uh it's simple. Luck360 is all around, you know, full circle, right? Dr.fred.com. I also get to know about him.

SPEAKER_01: 45:14

Dr.fred360.com. Drfred360.com.

SPEAKER_00: 45:18

Yep, that's how you spell it, people. Any anything else you want to add? I think, oh, find your true voice is a book, I think is another one. How am I?

SPEAKER_01: 45:27

Yeah, we have a few others. There's a the thing I'm really focused on these days is an undoctor reset, helping people undoctor themselves or uh learn how to be an undoctor for others. So undoctorreset.com is a good place to go for that, where we can really learn how I help you become the kind of human that can be there to heal others or help you actually undoctor yourself such that you indeed undiagnose yourself, unmedicate yourself, and then undoctrinate yourself, leaving you open to experience the power and freedom of what it really means to be a human in these trying times.

SPEAKER_00: 46:01

Yep, that's the solution right there, people. And trust me, has a lot of you know goodies, free goodies, and of course some cost goodies. So go there as well. Look, go there, especially if you're tired, the way your life is going. If you don't like your current trajectory, give it a shot. That's what I'm gonna say. And me, I you know, it's better to do something than to do nothing. Even that's something it's a bit flawed. You can always do another action, another action, another action. Find out what works, right? The journey of self-discovery. At least that's one part. Uh that's part of being human, right? Um just find what solution is best for you. Um that that's that's what I say. And you know, and that that's and that's all I'm gonna say. I'm gonna keep it nice and short because I can add a lot more. But you know what? I think sure is sweet. That's where I'm gonna go for now on. All right. Anything else you would add before I really, really wrap this up?

SPEAKER_01: 46:50

No, I think that's it. I really just the last thing I like to tell people is really it's seriously, no kidding. There might be nothing wrong with you. It's okay to be uncomfortable. It's okay to be miserable, actually. It's not, I'm not wishing it on you. It's not pleasant. But it's totally okay to be, you know, really confused and really misled inside of this crazy world. It's totally okay.

SPEAKER_00: 47:10

Believe it or not, even though I've criticized you in the past, but I think this is gonna be a slow evolution. You know, these guests do affect me one way or another, especially if I stop fighting it or try to be fair-minded in quotes. It starts seeping in in some ways, because I used to sound too aggressive and bitter. Now I'm more well, I'm still a smart aleck, I would say, but I'm more jokey, more lighthearted, and even sometimes more high-energy, because I let I let their, you know, their experience, even their their expertise impact on me, right? Because it's really a choice. You could just choose to say, oh, Dr. Fred Moss is a nut. I don't what forget what he's saying. You can choose that as well. Uh, I don't recommend that, especially if you're if you don't like the trajectory that you're in. But if you think your life is great, then forget about what I said and just do and just do that. Or you think Elias Martin is crazy, that's fine by me. That's not the first time I've been called crazy. I've been called crazy many times. To me, it's just a walk in the park. And you know, and it served me pretty well, believe it or not. If I was uh, if I was, I would call, like we all know what normal is, but I'll say conformed, right? Being more conformed to society, I think I wouldn't be as successful. That's what I'm gonna say. You know, so normal conformed is a better word. Try to conform to modern society standards. See, I'm even changing the way I talk. I say normal, no, it's conformity to modern society. That's that that's that's really it. That's the precise language I should be using more often. You want to be conformed, or you want to express your unique individual humanity. Okay, that's all I'm gonna say right there. Now and one more thing, can't believe almost forgot this. Check out his social medias as well. He got what okay, he got he got a bunch Facebook, Twitter, call it X, I'll never will. YouTube, Instagram, and LinkedIn. Okay, check those out as well. Okay, now I feel like I covered everything. Now for my podcast plugin. Like, comment, subscribe, share this with someone who you believe could benefit tremendously. I mean the Apple Podcasts, give a review, give an honest review. If it's not a five star, give one specific way this episode can improve. It doesn't have to be one, but that's a starting point. And if it's five stars, and just say why is this episode great. Be specific why this episode is great. That the guests correct me multiple times. I could probably be one reason or or two. Wow, you got me thinking in a completely different way. You know, and there or you could see you could criticize the side, the sound, the lighting, all that good stuff. Okay. Nope that's it for the audio, folks. Now for the final part. Check the new paper, or the reason why I promote the new paper because it's factual, straight to the point kind of news. It's not slanted left and right. Like I talk about being anti-partisan. This is me being pretty anti-partisan. And two, if you want, if you want to give me money without actually giving me money, yeah, that is possible. You click on the free website guys link. If you need a website, click on that link. You're giving me money without ever giving me money. Maybe you're giving the money that comes to me. I don't know how that works, but you know, you don't actually have to shove out money. Okay, that's all I'm gonna say about that. Oh, actually, one more thing. Join pod match. You don't want to do email thread conversations that people gotta upload a PD, you know, the one pages of PDF, and if they then if they have to change something, they have to redo the darn thing and give it to you, and then I could get lost in the email thread. Join podmatch. It's organized, it's easy to use, and you don't have to go through that whole email thread. Look, sometimes we don't have time to do that, let's be honest. So join podmatch. You can join for free, okay? Just to start out. All right. So that's all. So that's all I got for you. So once you complete this audio or visual journey, you have a blessed day, afternoon, or night.