334-Why Iran Rejects Foreign Rescue With Zolal Habibi

We talk with Iranian human rights activist Zolal Habibi about why Iran’s fight for freedom cannot be outsourced to foreign bombs or buried under “pragmatic” negotiations. We connect the regime’s execution machine to a longer history of coups, propaganda, and women-led resistance, then ask what meaningful solidarity looks like without repeating past disasters.

• Why headlines flatten Iran and how to build a fuller picture through history and lived experience 
• Zolal’s background in the Iranian resistance and the impact of the 1988 massacre 
• What the National Council of Resistance of Iran is, how it formed, and why it argues the regime is not reformable 
• the case for separation of religion and state and a secular democratic republic 
• Women’s empowerment as a core strategy, not a side issue 
• Why “war” fails in practice and why appeasement can become a green light for executions 
• How foreign intervention and coups shaped modern Iran and fuel distrust of outside control 
• What governments can do now: stop undermining democratic organizing and recognize the right to resist 
• Why we should treat rights like oxygen and protect them before they are gone 

Follow Zolal Habibi at ...

NCRI Website

https://www.ncr-iran.org/en/

Maryam Rajavi's website

https://maryamrajavi4change.com/

YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/ncriran

Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/IranNCR/

LinkedIn

https://www.linkedin.com/in/zolalhabibi/

Twitter

https://x.com/Ashrafi4ever

Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/ashrafi4ever/

Transcript

Why Nuance Matters On Iran

SPEAKER_02 0:00

People in charge it eventually leads to disaster. I could that I know is a a heck of a lot more than the Iranian history, but the patterns are saying they have for intervention that goes in there and the people don't like it. And they say they're from the people. I mean welcome everyone to politically high tech with your host, Elias. I'm still I am fine if you're wondering. Just had to take a break, but I am back, I'm ready to go, people. But I'm gonna keep this in a more serious tone. Know me, I like to have fun, be silly, even be a little weird. But this is a very serious situation here that would be very inappropriate for me to do that. And this is more, I want to say, Iranian history, Iranian current events, this is Iranian, you know, lessons that we Westerners need to know. Sometimes we think we know everything, but if you think you know everything, you're just indirectly telling people that you're an idiot. You think you know everything. You have to be open to learn different things. Why am I saying this? Because I'm not gonna pretend to be an Iranian expert. I just learn things here and there. I learned a few things from college, such as the Iranian Revolution and how Iran was before the Islat took over. I mean, but that's surface level stuff. But thank goodness I have a guest here who is far more experienced, has firsthand experience uh from Iran. And these are the kind of people we need to talk to if you want to have a better grasp of what's going on. Like the TV meet, the TV, the social medias, they tell you their headlines and their stories to tell you what to think. But that's not the entire picture. No. No, they spoon fed you these uh these narratives, these easy snippy answers, and just clicks, you resort it as gold, and then you think you know everything. That's not how that works. If you want to be educated, you have to dig deep into these things, uh break it down, think of it forwards, backwards, and even scramble. That's how you know you're an expert in the subject. Person that can scramble it, make it sound confusing, you'll know that person's sort of if you think you know everything, even more than the people that live in Iran, that's pretty crazy. That's delusional. Well, we're not gonna do that here. I know my audience, we are we're curious people, we like to think critically, and we don't mind, and look, they don't mind criticizing me if I go off the rails, which I appreciate that because I do say give me feedback. I'm a grown man, give me specific feedback. Don't say Elias is stupid or Elias is amazing. That's not helpful. Yes, even empty compliments are not helpful. But if you tell me why I need to improve wrong, why the show is great, that helps a lot. And I'm gonna keep saying that like a broken parakeet. All right, let's get right straight into it because I'm curious about what's going on here and I'm willing to learn about Iran myself. That's why I love talking to people, especially if you actually live there and experience it or do advocacy work or whatever work they do. It enriches you people. So have a good listening ear here. I recommend that. That's all I'm gonna say about that.

Meet A Veteran Iranian Activist

SPEAKER_02 3:29

All right, so let me introduce the guest here. And feel free to correct me if I mispronounce your name. We have Solal Habibi. Oh, thank goodness. Why do I we need to know the perspective of the Iranian human rights activists? They, you know, they advocate for women's rights, justice, democracy, and I'm sure America would like to support that, right? As opposed to the Idatola, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard that supports it, and they're very oppressive, and they have executed thousands and thousands of people as of recent history. This is not even going way back, I think as far back as 2025, I believe. Yeah. So they're executing a lot of people still. And sadly, a lot of people's dying with this conflict that you know America has with Iran and Israel's involved. They keep poking on Lebanon and the ceasefires, they're on and then they're off, and then they're on. That's what we know about the headlines. But we get to get deep. So feel free to introduce yourself. Um, who are you? Who are you, and what do you want the audience to know about you?

SPEAKER_00 4:37

Well, as you mentioned, my name is Zon Habigi, and I am a rights activist for Iran. I have dedicated the last nearly 27 years of my life to the liberation of Iran, freedom for Iran. And I'm a member of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the National Council of Resistance of Iran, which is the parliament in exile working for the overthrow of the regime for 45 years now. And I am, I guess I belong to the generation that was born after the 1979 revolution. So we've seen nothing except this regime, but I am one of those who has actually never had the opportunity to actually visit Iran. I was born and raised in the US. And but I became introduced to the situation in Iran very early on and was always part and parcel of my life, especially as a child because due to my parents' activism. My father was a prominent writer and a human rights actor. He he posed a threat to the regime because of his activities and because he was raising awareness on the situation. And this is back in the 80s when there was an internet, there was no mass media back then. So people were not aware of what was happening in other areas of the world. And so killed by the Iranian regime in in summer of 1988. Actually, in in a few days will be the anniversary, it was end of July.

1988 Executions And A Regime’s Fear

SPEAKER_00 6:08

So that summer, though, it was a turning point for Iran. There are a lot of parallels to the situation in 1988 and today. For one thing, uh, in July 1988, the eight-year war with between Iran and Iraq came to a ceasefire. And fun fact is that till this day it's still a ceasefire. It's not peace, it never reached a peace deal or anything. It's just just a ceasefire, which Khomeini called a chalice of poison, because in the mindset of this regime, war is a holy matter because it allows the regime to, I guess, push a lot of things under the rug and just they strive on chaos, they strive on war, and that is has always been key. Khomene used to say about like 10 years ago, I guess, during the Arab Spring, people kept on questioning why are we in Syria? What I mean, why is Iran interfering in Syria? And he said, you know, if we don't fight in the streets of Syria, Iraq, Yemen, and Lebanon, we will have to start fighting in the streets of Tehran, Ispan and Shiraz. That is exactly what we've been seeing since 2025 till today. With the fall of Bashar Assad, we saw and you know the proxies of the regime being eliminated. We saw, you know, turmoil inside the country and how the regime has been dealing with that. In 1988, after the cease by the regime had 30,000 political prisoners executed in five, six weeks, to try to send a message to society that it will do anything to keep its grip on power. This was coming out of an eight-year war, knowing that the people were just fed up until that moment everything had been, there was a lid on everything by saying, hush, we have a foreign enemy. There's we're going through a war. And they knew that with the end of the war, this society was, you know, just a powder keg waiting to explode. So that's why they carried out the mass executions back then. And the reality is if you look in the last 30-something years, all of the top figures of the regime have been people who had some kind of a role in the 1988 massacre. And that's where they had proven, you know, their loyalty to Khomeini and the regime. And so that's why they were trusted throughout these years to keep this regime afloat. So yeah, that is my background. And yeah, as I mentioned, I've dedicated my adult life to the cause for freedom in Iran. Especially, I guess the turning point for me was in also again in July. But in July 1999, there was a student uprising in Iran. And uh Mr. I felt like that brought a responsibility for me. What is your role? What are you gonna do? You're living in freedom.

SPEAKER_02 9:11

That's very good. So you never so let me just be clear because I I kind of assume this. I'm gonna call myself oh, but still you have the you know, you know, you study this extensive.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

The issue that I'm dealing with is the situation in Iran and working on that and uh 24-7.

SPEAKER_02 9:26

So that's more than good enough. Yeah, that's more than good enough. Okay, I just want to I want to make sure I got that on the chance. Okay, I would have thought you had at least you know been there a few times, but I know it's very risky, crazy, and some people have escaped and all that. And I think I talked to it.

SPEAKER_00 9:40

I would be executed if I were so that's oh true, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:45

And then this will never happen. Yeah, no. So uh yeah, it's a good thing you're safe. It's good thing you're safe. Let me just be clear about that. Um alright then. So let's get to what questions do I got here? So tell us more about the role that you have in the NCRI to foreign affairs um community. I mean, what kind of work you do? I know I touched on a little bit, but um, you f I know you're fighting for freedom. And how are you helping those who are oppressed in Iran, you know, to come back against this? I'm gonna be honest, a pretty strong regime because they were they were able to replace leaders pretty quickly based on headlines I got. And you know, I was I was wondering, uh, Trump, I want you to do well in this war so you can free the Iranian people, but I don't see that half-side.

What The NCRI Actually Stands For

SPEAKER_00 10:30

Well, I guess I should explain a bit what the NCRI is and what they stand for, and that'll put things into perspective. The National Council of Resistance of Iran was formed in July 1981, after the last peaceful protest that we were able to hold in Iran was held. It was on June 20th, 1981, and Khomeini ordered the IRGC to open fire on peaceful protesters. Half a million people had come together in a simultaneous, you know, a spontaneous action. And unfortunately, the regime opened fire on that protest, and that was a turning point in the fight of the Iranian people because that was like the last drop of freedom that existed in society. Unfortunately, that day, hundreds of people were killed in the streets and that night at the gallows, and many were even executed without the regime even knowing their names. Back then, if you look at the newspapers from 1981, you see pages of pictures of children who've been executed, and the title reads, Would the parents of these children come and identify their bodies because we don't even know their names? And they've been executed. And unfortunately, that was the 1980s for the people of Iran. Every day opening the newspaper to read the names of those who've been executed the night before, looking for your loved ones. And I know people who were teenagers at that time, like 15, 16 years old, and they were in every prison, and they remember, they recall counting 300 to 400 coup de grasses being fired every single night. And so that was the Rhine of Terror that Khomeini created. To be able to fight that, the Iranian resistance realized that there needs to be a coalition. You know, the different groups need to come together to be able to create a coalition against this regime because it's not a classical dictatorship like the Shah. It's a religious thing which is more complex. And so since 1981, July 1981, the End Formed. It was formed in Paris, but I mean, sorry, it was formed in Tehran, but its first actual session was held in Paris. And it has uh its headquarters have been in Paris since, and it has over 500 members with 25 different committees, and it has people from you know all walks of life represented all of Iran's ethnicities, religious minorities, those who are also like atheists or whatever are also represented. I mean, everyone is represented in the NCRI. The NCRI had three basic, I guess, red lines. One is that you need to believe in the overthrow of this regime, that this regime is not reformable in any form. The second is believing in separation of religion and state for the future of Iran and a republic. So that is very important, drawing the line with both the current regime and the previous dictatorship. So those are the basic three elements that they believe in, and that has been the cornerstone of the NCRI. We have a plan for the interim government. The plan for the interim government is that there will be an interim government for six months, and then there will be free elections for to create a constitutional assembly. That constitutional assembly will then come up, draft the new constitution, which will be put to public vote. And based on that, there will be presidential elections then in Iran. The present elect for the interim, for that transitional time for that interim government will be Mrs. Bam Rajari, who heads the NCRI right now. And if you want to go over like because the plans that the NCRI has for the interim government, they're very extensive, like you know, about separation of religion and state, women's empowerment, the rights of ethnicities, strong justice system, and whatnot. But the cliff notes of that would be the 10-point plan presented by Ms. Rajabi for free Imam, which calls for, you know, that the ballot box is the final criterion. And like, for instance, freedom of speech, assembly, it calls for separation of religion and state. Gender equality is a major issue, and it's also a one of the strengths of this movement because we believe in women's empowerment, not just gender equality, as an important cornerstone in the fight against the Islamic Republic. It but we believe in the abolition of the death penalty and all forms of torture in Iran, which is very important because unfortunately, I was actually going through some documents a while ago and I realized that, well, in 2026, Iran is the number one country in executions per capita. But in 1976, Iran was also the number one country in executions per capita. So both under the Shah's regime and the Mullah's regime, that has been the case, and the people of Iran have paid a grave price for that over the years. Just under the mullahs, 120,000 people have been executed for supporting just this movement. And unfortunately, last year the regime had over 2,200 executions in 2025. And already there have been over, just till end of June, there was over 800 executions already in in Iran. That is aside from the thousands of people who were killed in the streets in January, and aside from all of those who have, you know, these are just announced executions. So the situation is much more severe. My role in the NCRI and the Foreign Affairs Committee is to be able to draw attention to the human rights plight in Iran. We work with different parliaments around the world, the US Congress, and also with you know different, I guess, institutions, human rights institutions and whatnot, to try to draw attention to the human rights situation in Iran and what is going on in Iran. The NCRI has been the source of all major revelations made about Iran's even nuclear program, too, but also terror, Iran's terrorism, the IRGC, all of that, and also the human rights situation. So we do have an extensive network inside of Iran who is able to gather that information and we are able to share it with the world. And we think that's very important due to the circumstances that we are in. Our position, though, to make clear of not just today, but for over two decades, we have stated this numerously. Mrs. Majab actually first stated this 22 years ago at the European Parliament, that we believe that the solution to Iran is neither war nor appeasement. And in fact, it's for the people of Iran and their organized resistance to bring about change, because the people of Iran have that change. The reality is that positive appeasement eventually leads to a war, and that is what the world has seen. But war in itself, in this form of it, is not going to bring about change in Iran. And the reality is that if you even look at all the other countries in the past few decades, democracy is not going to be installed through foreign war, especially in a country like Iran, because you mentioned Iran's history. Well, if you look in the past century, we have unfortunately we've had a lot of like we've had three, I guess, revolutions or some period of time that people of Iran were able to create some kind of a change, but it has all been undermined by foreign intervention. And in fact, all of the people who have led Iran in the past century, they have been installed by foreign powers. So that's why the Iranian people are very, you know, hesitant when it comes to foreign intervention, because we know that, unfortunately, because Iran is a very rich country in natural resources, but also plays a very important geopolitical role. There are those who have interests in Iran, which are not necessarily aligned with the interests of the Iranian people. So that's why it's really important for us to be able to finally create, you know, give sovereignty back to the people of Iran and have them push that path forward and create that true democracy that that we deserve.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

No, that people, I hope you're listening here. I did not hear any endorsement of, oh, we support you know Trump's intervention, military intervention. I didn't hear that. And I don't know how some people get. So I don't want to hear that this is like pro-Trumpian or any of that garbage, because I didn't hear that. He wants support of the Iranian people and go in charge. It eventually leads to disaster. I could that I don't say a heck of a lot more than the Iranian history, but the patterns are saying they have for intervention. They put their person in there, and the people don't like it, it leads into the revolution, and craziness has happened. You know, and that's why some and ironically, crazier dictatorships has formed because of that. And they say they are from the people. I mean, to some level of history people. I'm not gonna give you all, I'm gonna bore you all the exhaustive details, but they are patterns. This is why I was just nodding along, because I, yep. I could just I could keep going with so much examples of it. I could show I could show how much of a nerd I am, but what that's gonna do is just gonna boost my own ego. So I'm not gonna do that. But I will say this. I hope you listen, people, because I'm learning here about what's going on, and they want their republic. And specifically women empowerment. Certain European countries are doing better at that.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

America still in that department.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

You know, we you know Kamala almost sort of made a, you know, if you want to be nice about it, the last presidential election, but at the end, you know, Donald Trump won. Not gonna go through all that. You know what that is, and so be happy. Well, actually, more you're pissed off now. A lot the the the disapproval of Trump has gone way up. But look, I just I just the only thing I wanted to say is that I think only like I think like Sweden has made some progress on that. Mexico made progress on that. Because this is the funny part about Mexico, and I gotta give them credit. When it came to general election, either party only had a woman as a nominee. So it was guaranteed to be a woman. I think something similar has to happen like that in America. A Democrat and a Republican must have a woman nominee. I think that's the only way it's gonna work. Is you still have a woman, a man, you know, America is still kind of look, I love America, but I'm a tough critic of America. I'm a tough lover of America. I love you, but I have to call you out. That's the kind of relationship I have with America.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Instructive to be able to improve.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

That's a diplomatic way of saying it. I'm trying to put it the tough way of saying it. But you're right. I mean, it boils down to constructive criticism. And, you know, we you know, that's freedom of speech. Um, you know, Iranians want things like that. And this is something that, for the American perspective, we take this for granted. So we just go home, sit, enjoy our social media, video games, TV, whatever it is, we take that for granted. We do. And, you know, we I mean America's protesting more because they don't like Trump, primarily, as opposed to a lot of it. But is that really making a difference so far? I'm gonna be honest, no. No. But this is something that I think we should support. If you know, but I'm just gonna I'm just gonna say this again, but you have to be brave. This is not for the faint of heart. And you know, I don't know if America was an oppressive regime. I don't know how Americans would react. Um, the last time we went through that was what, probably 17th century, yeah, no, 19th century, like 18th century, yeah. When we were fighting for the country, you know, the rule of the King George, all of that. And then we just had the Civil War. But we didn't have this, you know, one dictatorship and a different form of dictatorship after another, like Iran. I don't, to be honest, I cannot even fathom that. Because I've never been through that, but it's good to understand. This is why we gotta appreciate our freedoms, America. Stop taking it for granted. It's the only reason why I'm mentioning this. And I support competency. Look, if a woman is readily charged, she'll get my vote. Okay, and I have voted for several women to be it personally because competency is not a gender, competency is about how good you are. Let's just be clear about that. Meritocracy is supposed to be fair, it's not supposed to favor a gender. That's what I'm gonna say. I know I'm gonna sound left-wing to some of you, but I've seen some of that gender and sex-based bias in my lifetime. That's what I'm gonna say. I know I kind of went off the rail a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

But I think it's an important issue because I think that to be actually to be able to reach gender equality, because for centuries we have had this male dominance, you know, in this patriarchy. So you need equity to be able to reach equality.

Women’s Leadership As Strategy

SPEAKER_00 24:48

And that is actually the experience of the Iranian resistance, something that I mean, for me, even when I was as a child growing up, and then as a teenager, I realized back when I was in high school, I think, that you know, I I was a typical teenager back then. I I mean, I wasn't, you know, but I realized very early on that I don't have a lot of the glass ceilings that you know my friends or people like around me do. And the reason was because I had such amazing role models in the Iranian resistance in front of me. I had people like my mom and others who had broken all those glass ceilings. They were doing things that no one ever thought, you know, no one perceived that women, you know, would enter these areas or be active in them. And I also had a role model like Mary Majavi, who, for me, she, you know, she had a slogan, she said, we can and we must. And that was my motto, you know, on a day-to-day basis. There was nothing, she always said that there's nothing that you can't do. It's just an issue of making that choice and paying that, you know, step by step, paying that price for it. And you could put, you know, whatever you put your mind to, you have the capability to do that. And I remember, you know, back since 1993, actually, the entire leadership council of the Iranian resistance have been women. And I remember back in 1996, it was the first world conference of uh it was the Beijing uh conference, and in women's conference, and then Hillary Clinton was first lady, and so she was she was one of the you know keynote speakers, and there she said, you know, women's rights are human rights, and human rights are women's rights, and back then that was supposed to be like such a you know revolutionary thing to say and like progressive. And I I remember thinking to myself, I was like, how is that progressive? Of course, women's rights are you know, human rights in a sense, because I was seeing you know women's empowerment as being the key to opening the path, and like Najai was speaking, and it wasn't just in words, they were actually in practice, you know, she was like, We need to extend this line of capable female leaders to Tehran and whatnot. And so I was like, you know, this just doesn't go. And that's when I realized that, you know, yes, the women of Iran have been suppressed systematically for so long, but they also have so much potential and they have been able to strive and they have made this possible, and they have led this movement now. I mean, through thick and thin, through things that, you know, are would be impossible for people to even imagine. For the last 33 years, this movement has been fully led by women, and that doesn't mean that w men have been put aside. In fact, men are taking up more responsibilities than before, and they see it as the path to their emancipation too, because they believe in this woman's empowerment being a key to taking off you know shackles that are in change in us in society because of you know how we are brought up in a patriarchy, and so it's very interesting in that experience. And I know like I know people who are uh philosophers or university professors and whatnot. For 30 years, some of them have been attending. We usually have a women's conference every year uh for International Women's Day, and I know people who have been attending it for 30 years, and this is like the one event that they're not willing to miss because they say it's important that it's not just you know, every year there's something new, but it's not just like an idea, it's actually a report of what you have actually been able to accomplish. And so that is why I think there are a lot of people who always wondered, like, for instance, in 2022, when they saw the women of Iran being, you know center stage in the uprisings and the role that they played, a lot of people, you know, they were wondering, like, how is that? But for us, it was just that was the natural next step because the role that women have played in the resistance for the last four decades. And in fact, over 30,000 women have been executed by this regime. And also the first demonstration held against this regime, against Khomeini, was the day that he wanted to, he announced that, you know, the compulsory veil. And that year, it was just a few months after the revolution. It was the first International Women's Day, actually after the 19th, after the revolution, and it was not only women who didn't wear a scarf who were protesting, but also the women who did, who came to actually create like a human shield around them to make sure that those who didn't were not being targeted or harassed. Because they said, look, you have no right to dictate to us how to dress or not to dress, and it should be a personal choice. And even in Islam it says there's no force in religion. And nowhere in Islam does it say that you have to wear a scarf or a veil or whatever. So you have no right to do that. So I think from day one, that was one of the key issues that how Iranian society fell out with the Mundas.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

And if you think we should go back to only male freedom, this is not just male-only freedom, this is not the episode for you. And look, we shouldn't even be saying it. So that's why I've been saying even as a kid that I thought it was human rights, not just only men's rights. That doesn't make sense to me as a kid, that's just human. Human is men and women. But and this is why I have to call out America. But it took the 19th Amendment to give a woman's right to vote, and that happened in 1920. That is way after the founding of America. And women had to protest and do all that stuff. Was it violent? Yeah, but trust me, based on the numbers I've seen, it's definitely not as violent as what the Iranians have gone through. But America did have its set of struggles. Not trying to undermine it. But you know, we made some tries, but there's definitely, like I said, room for for improvement until we start seeing a woman president. We got women in Supreme Court, we got women senators, we got women in House of Representatives. Yeah, we just gotta break that barrier because that glass ceiling is still strong. Until we have two women nominees for two major parties. That's the only way I can see it happening. No, just an idea, just like how Mexico did it. That's why they got a woman president. You know, and the only difference with America compared to all these parliamentary systems is that we only have two parties. You know, Parliament, they have multiple, they have many parties, but they have to coal this as a group, this would be a voting block. That's how it's different. You know, they got the center right, the more further right, the regular right, you know, they got all different names, conservative, or workers' party, whatever, they got the center left, the left, and the further left. They have to group up, this would be a voting block. And sometimes those coalitions, they're more shakier. But you know what? You know what's the good thing about that? Change happens faster. That's why change is slow in America, because there's just for the most part Republicans, Democrats, and a very few independents. Independents can be a little weird. They're already molded. And then if they break with the party, well, they're gonna get spanked by the party. If Republican turns against, you know, the majority of Republicans, and kind of the same thing with Democrats, they get a verbal spanking. So that's why changes lower in America. I don't like the party system. I don't like the I think they are more of a detriment than good, in my opinion, but that's that's what we have. Parliaments, they have many little parties have to coalesce and make an agreement just to vote for a certain candidate. Now those are the those are the more subtle differences between uh US Congress and parliaments in many different countries in general. Because that's why I noticed by study the Indian Parliament, British Parliament, French Parliament, Canadian part, well, Canadian Parliament's three major parties instead of two. Those are your differences. So, yep, I don't want to focus more on the you know women in in Iran and Iran in general because look, even even American women to some degree they take gum rights for granted too. You know, American women does have more rights compared to a lot a lot of women in different parts of the world. But there are certain countries that I think women have more rights than in America. Come on, we gotta be number one in that index globally, America. If you want to fight for something, try try to achieve something, okay? I think it's possible, but I just think the political will just it's fair and then it just runs away. It's flaky at best. That's the way I could describe America. So love you. I'm just uh well, she's she's calling me a constructive critic. I call myself a tough lover. We can disagree on that part. That's more semantics, that's fine. Yeah. I just so the question I would actually, before I ask the question, do you want to add anything before we move on?

SPEAKER_00 34:31

We could go to the next question.

The Myth Of “Smart” Negotiations

SPEAKER_02 34:33

So, what are the common misconceptions? I want to make sure my Western audience, mainly uh America and Canada, have a better understanding of Iran with the current crisis. What are the common ignorant comments or misunderstandings that you have counter from people?

SPEAKER_00 34:54

Some say it, well, you know, if it's not going to be war, then we have to go in negotiations with the regime and appease, you know, like try to come to a some kind of a consensus with a regime that we know is brutal. But in the that process, like for instance, unfortunately, since the ceasefire began initially, the regime started that week, they started a new wave of executions in Iran. The international community was silent on these executions for the most part. I mean, entities like even the UN Human Rights Committee Commission, they gave a statement. Amnesty International and other entities gave statements, but governments, none of them did, even though, like, for instance, when you can compare last year, I think about it was about this time of the year, the Iranian regime had two political prisoners executed. Practically at least 10 countries, you know, major countries gave a statement of condemnation minimum. This time, within a few weeks, over 30 political prisoners were executed. Eight were for affiliation with the NEK, the Iranian Resistance, and the rest were protesters who had been arrested in January, and they were executed within, you know, some of them even within 50 days of their arrest without any due process. Some were even, you know, as young as 18, 19 years old. Most of them, I think, with the exception of maybe like three, four of them, were under the age of like 35. And there was a silence from the international community. Why? Because they didn't want it to have an effect on the negotiations. In turn, that was a green light for the regime that you could execute with open hands and no one's going to say anything. So that is something that we have seen time and time again. And unfortunately, that is a card that the Iranian regime plays. And they actually mock the West for it because they're like, you know what, we just have to drag our feet in negotiations because your governments come and go. Ours is constant. So, you know, at the end of the day, we just have to drag our feet until the end of your term. And that has been the issue. So, what is the solution? A lot of people ask, you know, if it's not a war, because with the war, also let me explain why war isn't the solution. First of all, even if you look at it from a completely just military perspective, Iran is not a classical dictatorship. Like, for instance, with the Shah, the mil, you know, when the Shah left Iran, within two weeks, the whole system collapsed and he was gone. Or, like the scenario in Venezuela, you remove that top figure, the system falls. With this regime, it has a whole apparatus intact. So when you remove that top figure, it's not like the whole system falls apart. The same way that when Khomeini died, Khomene replaced him. And now Khomene has died, they say his son has replaced him. We have yet to see him, but that system is still intact and it's still working, right? So it can't be removed that way. So with bombings or from over the head, you're not going to end anything. For those who thought that, well, you know, simultaneously with the attack, with the raids on Iran, the people of Iran need to rise up. That's just like very naive to say that because how are you supposed to come to the streets when there are bombs over your head? And at a time that the regime is also has an excuse to be able to have complete martial law in place. Right now, they said, like, for instance, if you want to go like a 30-minute distance in whatever city in Iran, you have to go out through at least like two checkpoints to do so. And in the checkpoints, they're not just checking your car or your ID, they're checking even people's phones. They would during like there was an 88-day internet blackout during the whole war and parts of the ceasefire. The regime would check, they would, in the checkpoints, they would check your phone and see when is the last time certain apps have connected. Because if certain apps were connected, that means you have somehow overgone, you know, the whole blackout or like the censorship. And so you could be arrested for that. And some have been arrested for that. If you didn't have your phone with you, they're like, oh, that's a red flag. You probably have something to hide, and that's why you don't have your phone with you. So I mean, it's like getting into people's most personal aspects of their lives and controlling it. So during those circumstances, it's very, I mean, you can't expect people to be coming to the streets. On the other hand, if like you want to say with military intervention, Iran is a very large country. It's the 20th largest, I think, country in the world. So, and we have a lot of different terrains. So we have the desert, we have mountain ranges, we have jungles up north, we have water, bodies of water in the north and the south. And, you know, so wherever, and we have like major metropolitan cities. So, like, how are you going to make that possible? Like, for instance, Iran is three times the size of you know, four times the size of Iraq, but three times the population. How are you going to do that? So it's not possible with you know, even troops on the ground to overthrow this regime that way. So that scenario, if you go into it logically, it's not realistic.

Why War Cannot Create Democracy

SPEAKER_00 40:29

On the other hand, historically, when you look at it, we have the experience of you know, the Pahavi dynasty was brought in through a coup d'etat military coup. He Reza Khan, he was a you know, in the military, and through the coup, the British brought him in power. They kept him in office until he served their purposes. Once they saw that he's aligning himself with Hitler and, you know, the Aryan race and these things, they're like, okay, you know, and he wasn't, he wasn't just doing their bidding anymore. They sent him into exile and brought his son. The first few years, his son didn't have much power because he was afraid of, you know, he had to stay in check because of his experience with his dad. And that was the time that the people of Iran were able to push forward with the 1906 constitutional revolution that they had, that, you know, we need to have a, if we're going to have a monarchy, at least let it be a constitutional monarchy. Let's have a prime minister elected or chosen by the people or whatnot. So Dr. Massadak came into power. He nationalized Iran's oil, which the US and the UK were not very happy about because the Iranian people only received 6% of Iran's oil revenues. The rest of it was going to the UK and some parts to the US. And so we had the coup d'etat against Dr. Mossadef. And the only democratic government that Iran has ever had in the last century was over, you know, overturned by that coup d'etat. And so the people of Iran have that experience. And then 1979 revolution came out. I mean, after the coup d'etat, Muhammad Zapandevi was reinstated in Iran. And now he had complete grip over power because he, you know, he had complete backing now from the US and the UK. He set up the Savak, which was notorious for its suppression and tortures and whatnot. The executions of political prisoners increased. All political parties were banned. Iran had a one-party system. And there's actually the newspaper images from back then that Muhammad Zahani said, you know, we only have one party. If you don't like it, either leave the country or you're going to be arrested. And that quote still stands. I mean, it was in the newspapers back then. And well, you know, it time came that President Carter came into office. He had the human rights diplomacy. And he saw, you know, like Iran is, you know, just ready to explode due to the circumstances. There was extreme poverty, the Shah was living a lavish life, and all of that. There was the celebrations that they held for the 2,500 years of monarchy in Iran. And the people were suffering from it. And there was also the execution and tortures and everything. So President Carter asked the Shah to, you know, stop execution and torture. And well, because he was aligned with the US, he had to accept that. And the minute that he did, 18 months later, the Shah was not in power anymore in Iran because the people of Iran overthrew him. Unfortunately, it was the Cold War era, and the Western powers were afraid of what comes next after the Shah, because Iran. Had a very large common border with the USSR, and Iran has always played a very important geopolitical role. We see it today with the Strait of Hormos and everything, but also in the region, the fact that Iran has. And so they had a conference in Guadalajara in France where they discussed it and they came to the conclusion that maybe Khomeinis are at best bet because it was choosing between the progressive movements who had actually created this revolution, like the People's Majidin Organization of Iran or the Fadains, who were the main groups who created this revolution. But they were progressive movements. And so they're like, well, where are they going to align with the USSR? And in regards to the whole history with the US and meddling and whatnot. So they thought, well, Khomeini, who was a fundamentalist, is against the USSR anyway. So maybe he, and that's when they actually brought in Khomeini into power. And uh Khomeini had made a lot of promises, but they were empty promises, and so he turned against that within months. And the people of Iran have been suffering from that since that day. So that is why Iranians are so, you know, they don't want foreign intervention. We're like, you know what? We have the capability and potential to create change ourselves, just allow us to. Unfortunately, right now, the Iranian regime has openly been using hostage diplomacy as one of its, you know, practices and also the positive appeasement. You know, they have given so many oil deals and whatnot to governments in exchange to even limiting the Iranian resistance abroad. And we have suffered a great price for that. And then, so that is one issue that I think there's a lot of misconceptions about. The other thing is that what is the solution? Like what comes next? That same question again. So a lot of people think that, well, it's either this regime, this current status quo, try to create some kind of a reform in it, the fact that this regime is not non-reformable because of the constitution it has, but is something that many don't understand really. And then they're like, okay, so if you don't want this, are you going to revert back to the previous, like the monarchy? And that is also not what the people of Iran want. The people of Iran want to move forward in the 21st century to a you know secular democratic republic in Iran, to have separation of religion and state, to have a true democracy, and to have like a republic where, you know, people sovereignty instead of you know some ruler who has, you know, to be above them. And I think that is what people of Iran are pushing for, and that is really important to understand. The reality is that the people of Iran overthrew the Shah through a popular revolution. Yes, unfortunately, their revolution was hijacked by Khomeini, but that doesn't undermine that revolution. It's unfortunately it was hijacked. That doesn't make it wrong, the revolution wrong. The outcome of it was wrong that Khomeini came into power. But the reality is that the people of Iran throughout monarchy. And it's like, I don't know, it's if you compare it in history, like for instance, just imagine after the French Revolution, there are a lot of ups and downs, but they didn't go back to monarchy. So I mean, the fact that some people even mention that they're like, oh, shouldn't all you know, all the choices be on the table? But I'm like, is that really I mean, you can't even compare that? You can't say, well, let's test them out. I mean, you're bringing someone in that based on heredity is going to rule the country. Like, on what base, why should we have to give in to that, even in the first place? And then some can make comparisons of you know, to like, well, there are a lot of you know constitutional monarchies in the in Europe or in other countries, but that even is different. That that has a long history that they haven't changed it yet. But it it's it would be funny if you change it and then go back to it, you know. That that's just ridiculous, especially with the background that the Shah had. I mean, with the victims of the Sabak are still alive. I know people, there's an elderly mother actually. We call her Aziz, which means like it's an endearment in Farsi, but five of her children have been executed during the Shah's four of them during the Shah's time and one during the Mullah's time. She herself, at the age of 40, was taken to prison during the Shah's time, not because of her own activity, but because of her children. And she was tortured so severely, and she's like this little tiny woman, right? And to this day, she has like the sole of her feet. You can still see the scars from the torture, which are from nearly 50 years ago. And for me, like when when I see people who forget this, I'm like, how how can you forget that? That's the reality everyone. My own father, he was a student in Tehran University, he was studying law. And one he, I mean, he was opposed to the Shah, but he didn't have any kind of political affiliation with anyone or anything like that. He was just like a progressive student, right? And he had been offered a position after law school by the Shah to serve as a judge, but then he would have to align himself with the Savak and the Shah and my dad was like, no, you know what? No, thank you. I'm not going to do that. And so he ended up going with some of his college friends to the mountains, like hiking. And those are politically affiliated. They're going there because that's where the Savak is not around, and they could talk and they could, you know, discuss things and whatnot. And so he was arrested on that charge. Like that's it. Like he went one week and then the next week he had disappeared, and he was in prison for like three, four months, and what on no charges whatsoever, just because they assumed because of how he was that he was probably opposed to the show. And you know, when he was released from prison, my grandfather was like, you know what? You're getting on the first plane and leaving this country because God knows what's going to happen. And he had gotten also a full scholarship to American University, so he came to DC to pursue his studies and got his doctorates there. But I mean, that's just a simple example of like what people dealt with during the Shastam. It's not those rosy pictures that you see. The reality was far, far more severe and intense. It wasn't that the people were so happy that they had a revolution. It was that people were suffering and that's why they revolted. And that's something that's important to keep in mind and not

How Coups Shaped Modern Iran

SPEAKER_00 50:51

forget.

SPEAKER_02 50:51

People, I really hope you're listening here. This is some valuable stuff here. Do you see any commonalities with authoritarian regimes? That America operate like that. All they have to do is perceive you look like an enemy, and that was enough to get you arrested. And America isn't even happening even to some degree. Oh, I don't like your opinion. You're gonna get arrested. It's slowly happening in America, so this is why we must be vigilant. Oh, it takes us one generation of meat kumpoops to ruin liberty. Slowly rolling America. We need to be vigilant and protect and cherish our rights as much as we can because we could possibly end up like that. Oh, we could never end up like around. Oh no, never say never. We get careless. Oh, yes, that is what's certainly gonna happen. Carelessness and taking it for granted, it's a good recipe. And you know what? Those politicians will want that. Oh, these Americans will kick up their rights. Take it away. They were tripping around rights little by little by little by little. I started being involved in politics since more as an analyst, really, more as a student analyst, since George W. Bush era. I was noticing rights being taken away, even as a kid's teenager. I said, what is going on? We're supposed to be landing a free. I noticed these things. That's everything about it. No, I'm sadly no. I just being honest. I'm a teenager. What the heck can I do? Nothing. I guess I'm gonna just bride anyone to shoot me aside. And you know, and my parents discouraged that as well. I wish I had your parents in the way. I would have been more of a freedom fighter. But I was like, no, just do well in school and be quiet. See? I'm not blaming my parents for everything, but this is just I'm just making a comparison. And some Americans have parents like that's what's the next, you know, thing. And don't even you know try to agitate a cause of ruckus.

SPEAKER_00 52:49

By my aunt because my father was killed when I was seven, and then my mom joined the resistance, and so at first we were with her, and then it wasn't safe for children anymore, so she sent me back to the US to be raised by my aunt. And then my aunt had the same mentality that you do to this day. She was like, you know what? You guys need to just concentrate on your studies and become something. And she tried everything possible to get me to not be an activist, to be honest. And because I mean, she had lost my I mean, I understand like where she came from. It was very difficult for them when my father was killed and everything. But so, I mean, yes, in society, your parents are always going to be very protective and try to safeguard you because that's their responsibility as parents. But that is why, like, for instance, there's during the uprisings actually in January, we saw a lot of of these youth who came to the streets, they had recorded like their final messages to their families beforehand just in case. And they had told them, you know what, our only ask from you is don't stop, don't prevent your children from coming to the streets. Because look at where we are today. It is because your parents didn't allow your generation to come to the streets, and so this regime has continued. But at the end of the day, no one's going to hand you freedom and a silver platter. We have to pay the price for it. And if we don't pay the price for it today, the next generation is going to pay the price to have to live under it. And today, I mean, over 70% of Iran's population is under the age of 30. And they say, you know what, we are alive, but we're not actually living. So that's why they're willing to take such a great risk and come to the streets. And that's why you see that in the last 10 years, there have been four major uprisings in Iran. And that's why you see the growth of resistance networks inside of Iran, what we call resistance units. That is exactly what the regime wants. And that's why you saw the week that the ceasefire went into place, they had, you know, immediately, I think that first week they had 10 people executed. Six were members of the resistance units, and you know, the others were protesters. One of them was 18 years old, one was 21, you know, very young ones. The regime wanted to send a message to society that, look, I will do whatever to keep my power. And they wanted to send a message by having you know the 18-year-old executed first. They wanted to send that message. This is the same thing they did in the 1980s, too. Like back then they would have like 13-year-old girl executed, or a lot of teenagers, really, or elderly mothers in their 80s, even, or pregnant women. The regime wanted to send a message to society that I see no borders. And today they're doing the same thing. And as you said, I think it's really important that for us to safeguard the freedoms that we have, we have a responsibility towards, you know, ourselves and our response, our community and the future generations. And we need to safeguard and honor those rights and those freedoms that we have that we tend to take for granted until it's taken away from us. It's like oxygen. The minute you have the oxygen, you you don't realize it because you're breathing it. But the minute that that's taken away from you, then you'll suffocate. So it's really important to understand that and understand that that brings a response to the baby.

SPEAKER_02 56:31

I love that analogy. That's such a clever analogy. Tree, you know, tree rights like oxygen. Yeah, because that's how that's exactly what that is. Yeah, we breathe it, we know we have it, but we don't pay attention to it. But oh, we will know when it's gone. A couple of seconds you're gone. Yep. And that's rights. Rights are that's leading. Um, especially if you do nothing about it. Just think, oh, someone will handle it. You know how many times people said someone will handle it? And get and this is where I'm going to criticize the American protest. Yeah, she could protest against Donald Trump. But we should be protesting against government just taking rights and repealing some restrictions. That's that's a protest I will join. Donald Trump is more the symptom of the problem, not the cause. Look, and I look, I'm very critical of Trump, but it's just protest just against him is not enough. He's just a figurehead. You should protest against Congress for all the crap they have done, pushing to repeal certain rights that have hurt the people actually, overturned citizens united, things like that. I'll join those protests. But not not just the ones for Donald Trump. That doesn't move me to protest. He's just he's just a madman, he's gonna come and go, and still the Iranian regime is stable and they've been there for a very long time. And that's why they just played that the long game. Okay, they're okay, they'll change, they'll have a weak leader, and then things will be will go better. It's good that we have change, but the problem is it's less stability. And I'd say Iranian does have that great apparatus that they was able to replace the leader right away. That's why the system didn't collapse.

Appeasement, Repression, And The Next Step

SPEAKER_00 58:18

Well, actually, just to clarify the Iranian regime is in a very weak position. I mean, they've never been this weak. What's important is to allow the people of Iran now to take matters into their own hands. And I think it's time for you know the international community to recognize the people's right to resist and to fight back, uh especially against the IRGC. And that is like the next step because there is an organized resistance movement, they have that capability, but unfortunately, right now, because of due to the positive appeasement, when the Iranian regime pushes on Western governments to act against or make statements against or limit you know the resistance they do. Just to give you an example, on June 20th, there was supposed to be a rally in Paris. We were expecting 100,000 people. We had we counted over 837 buses who had arrived on scene. And the night the day before the French government revoked the demonstration. Why? Because of that day, actually, in that week, there were four phone conversations between the Foreign Minister of Iran and France. Everyone was like, why are they in these calls constantly? But the day that they revoked that rally, there was an over-hour discussion between the two foreign ministers, and this decision was made. The French police ended up saying that it was for your own security, because the Iranian regime and others or and monarchists were making threats. But the reality is that, well, you have the capability to provide security if you wanted to. But the fact that you give in to the demand of the Iranian regime because you want the straight-up hormones to be, you know, opened, it sends a message to the regime that they can even manipulate your democracy and your you know, your system, so nothing stands anymore. And so it's very important for the governments to actually understand, like, you know, it's not only affecting us, the diaspora, or the people of Iran, you're undermining your own principles, your own values, your own system, and you're allowing it to be played as a pun by a dictatorship who's going to just laugh at your face for allowing that to happen. And unfortunately, that has been the case. But I think now is the time for the international community to recognize the people's, the Iranian people's right to fight against and face of this regime and to bring about change. Um, the people of Iran are willing to pay the price, they know that it's not going to be an easy battle. 120,000 people have already given their lives for the for freedom and us or even killed in January. But it it has to come to an end. And we have to make that possible. And I think right now is the time. So we hope that the world will stand by the people of Iran as they fight for their freedom. And what's important is they're not asking for trips on the ground, they're not asking for money, they're not asking for financial help, they're not asking for any of that. They're just asking, please, at least, you know, we don't want your support, at least be neutral here. Don't allow, don't allow the regime to, you know, move forward this way. And I think that's really important to understand.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:50

That's a very good point. I'm happy I'm corrected there. I'm sure yeah, they were damaged during the war because look, U.S. has a very strong military. I don't want to dismiss that. That old US is a very strong military. You know, you know, they're happy that the Iranian regime is weakened. That's good news to hear. So there's some whole people. But, you know, no foreign intervention. We know what happens with that. We just kind of discussed that. We had a lot of examples. I gave you an example happened with Colombia, and oh, Cuba. Oh, very taken this example happened with that one. We had uh Tadel Castro, for those of you who forget history, he was a dictator, and then, you know, and uh look, they had a revolution against uh U.S. installed leader, and you know, it was the right thing to have a revolution, but the outcome was bad because they had a dictator. They had another they had another person that that was you know very authoritarian. But he pretended to be for the people. That's what they do. You gotta be careful of those that say they're for the people, because those are some of them are very sly and smart, and I gotta give him credit. He's actually he was actually very smartly, he was able to outmaneuver the CIA, one of the few. A lot of them were struck down by not this one, but yeah, maybe we should just recognize them, not interfere, and I think that's the only way to go about it, I guess, because we try foreign interference and it's always been disastrous. Yeah, we got rid of one, but we got a new problem that comes in. You know, and just have some more faith on that. Maybe that's the only thing I can say about that. You know, America, we gotta stop being too involved with things. We need to help what's going on domestically, focus more on here, you know, and that's all we're gonna say about that. Anything else you wanna add before I wrap this well no, thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:45

Uh I think I covered most uh the most important

Where To Learn More And Help

SPEAKER_00 1:03:49

aspects. But for those who would like to learn more, you could reach out to visit NRG or myamrajav4change.com or to learn more about the movement and what we stand for and what it is that we're promoting. And for those who might want to get involved, because the Iranian diaspora is very active also in the US and Canada. In the US, you could reach out to Organization of Iranian American Communities, it's oiac.org. They have chapters in over 40 states, so you're probably covered there. And for those in Canada or anywhere else, you can reach out to ironfreedom.org and they'll put you in contact with local chapters. They can really use your help no matter how big or small. So please feel free to reach out to them and we look forward to hearing back from those who are interested in sustained by the people of Iran. Thank you very much for your time.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:46

But again, that doesn't tell you everything, it only gives you highlights and key points about what you should know about them. Skip the learn, people, growing up your mind because look, the reason why I'm gonna keep saying this is because we take our rights for granted and we can end up just like that, or maybe even worse, if America does not get its act together. We must be vigilant. That's the internal price till death. Vigilance. I've been more involved politically. Yeah, I'm in my 30s, better late than never. To overturn certain rights, I you know, to overturn certain laws, I think it's oppressive. Like, and you know, it's you're gonna win some, you'll lose some, but it's a long game. And change does take time. Don't be discouraged over one law. That's what I want to say about that. And you know, the price of freedom is life, especially when it hits a certain threshold that we have allowed for the government to take it away, and we should not be caving into anyone because it's like she said. The Iranian regime has used him uh of himself as the great left. Rich. Just make the Western government's cave. You need to be strong because that just tells you the government only cares about the resources. More access to resources more than the rights of a people of their people. You get that, people? They care about access to wealth more than the rights of the people. And you know, we need to change that. We should have we should care about the rights of the people. Then, if possible, we get um extract some resources. But um do it with a legitimate deal. Don't just back extract because America has a very long history of that. Venezuela is a great example. Took down a leader, got the oil, done. Venezuela does pour it in over. Okay, that's just a very recent example. We tracked extract. And we should be creating our own wealth people. I mean, we kind of do, but let's focus more on that instead of just taking things away from others. Okay, and let Iranis keep their resources because they're gonna need it when they governments are expensive people. Governments are expensive. Let them keep their natural resources, okay? And let them be a functional, another republic, I'm gonna call it, or democracy, whatever they figured out. They have to they have to iron those details. That's something you know, we're just gonna see and watch, and God willing, it'll be successful. That's what I'm gonna say about that. Support her, people, just support her, okay? Support her or support the organization of National Council of Resistance of Iran. It's pretty I it's a mouthful, but you know, I'll give you the link so you won't have to read that. And

Vigilance, Rights, And Closing Thoughts

SPEAKER_02 1:07:35

yeah, just support her. And yeah, and I'll provide all the links I got for her in the description of the episode. Give us some support. This is important, and we should not even be saying this. We need to focus more on the women's rights because they are part of humanity. And I'm gonna sound a little gross here. Who's gonna deliver the baby? Not the man. The biology is not gonna allow it. So and so man and women gotta have rights together. And I'll say empower women a bit more because you know, the history, okay? History has a lot of precedent for that. You definitely support that just a bit more. Um, not that I don't want to discount men. I'm a guy. I'm not, you know, I'm not gonna not gonna advocate for suicide here for men. We should be helping them. And when they're free, we're free. I know some of you now might not disagree with some of you will disagree with that because you believe that man is fear garbage. Say that, oh, the woman's more educated, more this, oh, they're not gonna want children, they're gonna be unattractive, they're gonna be all this. Stop. Stop. That's social media brainwashing. We're not gonna we're not gonna do that here. We have human rights. Human rights must mean human rights, not just for certain people. Those with money, those with power, those with certain gender. As to be, you know, we have to reach a point that human rights has become a normal word that encompasses all. Not just, oh, human rights is only rights for it's coded for certain people. You know, we gotta make sure human rights actually means human rights. We gotta get to that stage. I think we're getting there, but it is slow, I gotta say. It's so slow. You know, that's what I'm gonna say about that. And some countries are progressing faster than others. America's not one of them. Uh, so she becomes the president. That's another barrier that the women have yet to shatter that glass yet. And Mexico figured it out by having two nominations for the two major parties. Maybe we gotta do something similar. I don't know. But we have to figure that out. Just an idea, people. We can look at history, there's ideas there if you're open-minded to it. Because Mexico, because Mexico has done it. They got a woman leader. That's next door, people. Next door to America, not very far away, and very recent, too. This is not a hundred years ago. This is only a few years ago. So it's possible to be. Okay, enough of my little lecture and all of that good stuff. I'm sure she I'm sure my guest is getting a go, and I'm gonna wrap this up right now. So, whenever you listen to this podcast, you have a blessed day, afternoon, or night.