342-Why Socialism Fails with Dr. Doug Cardell

We challenge the feel-good pitch of socialism by defining economic systems clearly and following the incentives all the way to real-world outcomes. We argue that value creation, price signals, and limited coercive power explain why capitalism scales and why central planning collapses into force. 

• Defining economics as tradeoffs rather than just money 
• Clarifying socialism as state ownership of production and property 
• Distinguishing fascism as state control with nominal private ownership 
• Arguing that value is subjective and shaped by scarcity 
• Reframing work as creating value for other people 
• Explaining how patents, investors, and entrepreneurs drive progress 
• Challenging the idea that wealth is inherently “taken” from others 
• Showing how government intervention can separate consumers from prices in healthcare and college 
• Using complex systems and environmental analogies to warn about unintended consequences 
• Explaining why socialism cannot plan demand and tends toward dictatorship and black markets 
• Debunking the Nordic model as socialism and highlighting the tax tradeoff 
• Proposing sunset clauses, supermajorities, single-issue bills, lobbying limits, and redistricting reform 

You can rate in Apple Podcast, and yes, I’m gonna allow Spotify as well. 
The premium version is you get to listen to the classic episodes, that’s three dollars a month as well. 

Follow Doug Cardell at...

His website

https://dougcardell.com/

LinkedIn

https://www.linkedin.com/in/doug-cardell-phd-66693336/

Transcript

Socialism Sounds Nice So Why Fails

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Socialism is such a nice idea. Why doesn't it work? And participate in the black market, you're executed. There are places in North Korea sell their children for other people to eat.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Does it work?

Welcome And The Core Question

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Welcome everyone to politically high tech with your host, Elias Martin. This is another new awesome guest. And I definitely improve our understanding of economics. If you think you know everything, you're just indirectly telling people you're an idiot. But those of you who are intellectually humble enough, sometimes like myself, sometimes I get a little out there. You can call me out in the comment section if you want. I know a few of you enjoy doing that. That's fine. I don't get offended very easily. I might even laugh with you. Seriously. Um yeah, but this episode's gonna be about why socialism is so popular, but yet it's misguided. You know, I mean, I personally think it's misguided. I'm not gonna pretend I don't have a bias here. I'm definitely in team, you know, capitalism. I want capitalism to improve, but this stage of capitalism is not doing such a good job. I do acknowledge that it's a problem. What are the solutions? PhD. I don't want you knocking down degrees unless that person is actually an idiot. That's the only exception. That person's proven to be a neek and poop with a degree, then yeah, I then I will say, yeah, bash that person. But not everybody, okay? So people who got the degree actually use a degree and refine some even more, or you just get simply better, okay? So if we're gonna bash degrees, just make sure that person is actually not credible and actually is you know not intelligent, okay? Let's like blanketed insults. Let's have nuance, but we're gonna criticize, okay? There are like many. I'm just gonna just read this intro real quick. There it's just so, you know, they're more topical these days, they're like the government, the economy. Many political and current figures throw the terms like socialism, fascism, and capitalism without knowing what they mean or define it for their audience. Yes, we're gonna try to fix that, okay? Yes, yes. But understanding these systems and their issues is critical to help Americans decide what ideas and proposed actions they should or should not support. My guest here, the author of And Why Socialism Struggles, economic policy expert Doug Cardell, tackles this hotly, this hotly debated topic with clarity, logic, and evidence. We're in an engaging question and answer format in a QA. This book breaks down complex economic principles into digestible insights and addresses most common and often misunderstood questions about socialism. What is socialism? Really, what is socialism? Why do people keep proposing it? Keep saying like it's a hot word, a cool word, and why it's getting traction. That's it never worked. From drawing many research and historical examples and real data, Doug explains why socialism consistently leads inefficiency and erosion of individual freedoms. Well, that's very true for sure. And that's why that's one of my many concerns. Each answer builds an argument for builds towards a powerful argument. Despite the appeal of its theory, that's a lot of appeal, unfortunately, especially among the young. In other words, we're gonna have a much better understanding. The class is in session. I don't want to say class, more like a discussion, an educated discussion. Because me, I'm curious myself, and I'm not gonna pretend to have all the answers. I guess I only understand the basis of economics. Well, I know it's a pretty lengthy intro. Doug Cordell, welcome to the show. What do you want the listeners and the viewers to know about you?

SPEAKER_01 4:29

I'm happy to be here. I'm glad you invited me on.

What Economics Really Means

SPEAKER_01 4:33

Well, I guess we could probably start with some definitions. As you pointed out, a lot of people throw around a lot of words in economics and don't really know what the words mean. And I guess I would start with defining economics. Most people think economics is about money, and it isn't. It's partly about money, but not much. Every decision, that every organism, not just person, every organism that can make decisions, makes their all of their decisions economically. Because every time you make a decision, you're trading something for something else. So, like right now, you could be out playing basketball. So you traded being out playing basketball to come here on the and and do this podcast. And that's really important to understand that, and it isn't just people. If you put a cow, I I have horses, so let's use horses. If I throw a bale of hay on my horses and put another one 500 feet away, the horses are always going to go to the close room. And they're making a decision. Now, why do they make that decision? I don't know. I don't think horses count calories or anything like that. But at some level, I think they're programmed to understand, if you want to call it understand, that to walk to a bale of hay requires burning calories. And if they have to walk to one further away, they're going to burn more calories than they might get from the hay itself. It economics is crucial to survival for any organism, any organism. You put a plant in a room, it will grow toward the line every single time. So we're programmed to all organisms are programmed to survive. And part of survival is making economically sound decisions. So economics is just about weighing the alternative ways you can spend your time or money or any kind of resources and deciding what to do with it. That's economics. Now, yeah, some of that is money, but it's anything. Now, what about the kinds of economic systems? That's where the money part sort of comes in. Well, let's get those defined. Socialism is a system where the government owns the means of production and all property. The government owns the means of production. That means they own the factories. They own every way that there is to make stuff. And they decide what gets made. And they own all the property. People don't own it. There are no companies, so they don't own it. The only thing there is that owns property is the government. Communism is a myth. Most people don't know that. But communism was a system that where Marx envisioned that socialism would get so good that the government would wither away. That's the definition is that in communism, the people in general own the means of production, and the people as a whole, not individually, but as a whole, own all the property. Well, that's never happened, and it's never gonna happen because governments that get in power don't give it up. It's just the way things work. Next one up is fascism. Fascism is the other side of the socialism coin. In fascism, the government controls the means of production and all property. They don't own it outright, but they strictly control it. So, right now, a good example of socialism today is North Korea or Cuba. A good example of fascism today is China. Most people think China is fascist, but I mean, sorry, socialist, but it's not. It's fascist. They don't own a lot of the companies. They don't own a lot of the property, but they all all. So it's a fascist state. And then finally, the other one is what people tend to call democratic socialism. That's also a myth. It doesn't exist. There has never been a socialist state that was also democratic. The two are in to have. And we'll probably get a chance to talk more about democratic socialism a little later, but basically it's a myth. So those are

Value Is Subjective Not Intrinsic

SPEAKER_01 8:56

our definitions. That's what a whole lot of misconceptions about economics and economic systems has to do with a misunderstanding of value. Nothing has intrinsic value. Nothing. Things only have value because people give them value. Or, I mean, in the case of my horses, they value hay. But the hay itself has no value. In other words, if it weren't for the horses, the hay would just sit down and run. It only has value because the horses decided it had value. And that's true of everything in the world. I saw an article the other day that said that the asteroid Psyche had enough gold on it to make everybody on Earth a billionaire. That's just silly. Because here's what let's think of, let's play this out. Let's do a little thought experiment. Psyche comes close to the Earth, breaks up in our atmosphere, and showers the world with six inches of gold everywhere. Now, does that mean everybody's rich? No. In fact, the gold at that point would have negative value. What do you mean, negative value? Well, it would mean that I would pay somebody to get it out of my yard. Because I don't want my yard with six inches of gold of gold in it. I want grass. And so I would literally pay people to take it away. So it has negative value. That's what negative value means you're it not only do you it is it free, it's you pay to get rid of it, like garbage. And then you come still use it for semiconductors, and there's still uses for it. Ridiculously cheap. I mean, it would just be go out in your backyard and pick something up and make your semiconductors and you're fine. Value, and that applies, by the way, to labor. That's one of the problems with things like minimum wages. Saying that a certain amount of labor is worth a certain amount. It's not, it's only what it's worth to somebody who's willing to pay for it. And so if you aren't willing to pay that, it's not worth that. It's really very simple. What do we do about value? In other words, why do we even care? And that's a part that I think most people would benefit from understanding a lot. We talk about the idea that people should work for a living. And that's wrong. People shouldn't work for a living. People should create value for a living. Whole different mindset. And so when I got up this morning, I didn't think to myself, oh, I gotta go to work, I gotta go do this podcast. I was excited. I was anxious to come on here because you and I are trying to create value for our audience. And I'm hoping that we'll help change some people's lives. That's what we mean by creating value. And so ultimately, that's the the message of capitalism. Now I know it's been screwed up, but we can talk more about that later. But the basic idea of capitalism is this everybody finds their talent, everybody finds their bliss. So they found something that they're really good at, their talent, that they really love, their bliss, go out and create value for other people. That's the whole idea of capitalism with a nutshell. And to paraphrase paraphrase the Beatles, in capitalism, and in the end, the value you take should be equal to the value you make. And so people complain about not making enough money. And I know there's people out there struggling. But the question is, are you upping the value you create? Are you upping the value you make? Because if you do that, the value you take, the money you make, will increase. Plus, you'll be a whole lot happier. Because that's what life really should be about, is creating value for other people. I was on a podcast not long ago, and the host said she thinks of it as blessing people every day. We can look at it either way, but we should be out there creating value for other people. And we shouldn't be upset when the people who do that make a lot of money for it. I don't know what system you're on. I'm on a PC running Windows. We couldn't be talking right now if it weren't for Bill Gates. I mean, that's just the way it is. Bill Gates has made our lives better. The fact that our listeners are listening to it means he's made their lives better. Because without Windows, I couldn't be doing this. And furthermore, I'm out here in the middle of nowhere. And so I'm talking to you on Starlink. I couldn't be doing that if it weren't for Elon Musk. And a little while ago, I had to run over to my package drop-off place where Amazon drops my stuff off and picks something up. And I've run the numbers on that. Amazon has made everybody in the U.S. two to $3,000 a year richer every year. That's how much Amazon saves us. Now, sure, Bezos has got to be a billionaire doing that. What do I care? He gave me a free two or three thousand dollars a year, every year, like clockwork. I'm gonna complain because he made money on the deal. He didn't take it from me, he gave to me. So that's the thing that most people don't think about is that now are there people out there that got money illegitimately? Those are the bad guys, that's a whole different, that's a whole different thing. But most of the famous rich people you are used to talking, hearing about, are people that have earned every penny of it. They've gotten there by doing exactly what I just mentioned. They took something they were good at. Gates was good at writing computer software. Musk is good as coming up with crazy ideas and making them work. Bezos is really good at developing a marketing base, Amazon. They took something they were really good at and something they love doing. You look at either of those people, and they don't complain about going to work. Now, Gates is retired, but the other two still go to work every day and they end up whining about it. They love what they're doing. You watch an interview with Elon Musk, and it's obvious the guy is just crazy about loving all the stuff he does. And he's so he took that talent and he took his bliss and he's created value for all of us. And I mean, think back 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago. If somebody had told you that some guy, some random dude in Texas, would be putting satellites into orbit without the help of the U.S. government, people would have laughed at you and said, You're nuts. You have to have NASA to do that. But no, Musk just said, I'm doing it and did. This would be really cool stuff. And so that's the first thing we have to get past is the idea that capitalists are evil people. The true capitalists are out there trying to create value for others. Now, yeah, they're gonna get rich doing it. But on the other hand, a lot of them don't even care. Elon Musk, I think he's moved now, but for a while there was living in a tiny house, like a 400 square foot house. He's not out there doing all kinds of crazy stuff with his money. Warren Buffett lives in the house he grew up in. He didn't go out and buy a mansion, he lives in the same house his parents raised him in. So we're talking about real people that are doing cool things. And that brings us to the to me, the like the really important question is why do people still hate the rich? Why are they so upset about that? And I know the answer. I can explain it really easily. Let me get a sip here. It's history.

How Capitalism Changed Human Progress

SPEAKER_01 17:16

If we go back and look at the years from the year one to the year 1500, during that time, per capita GDP, which is a measure of how much stuff people produce, didn't change a drop. Now think about that for a minute. 1500 years and the world got no better off. People were still living just like they were. And from what you from what all of us know about the year 1500, that's true. You compare people then and compare people back in ancient Rome. No difference. The whole world didn't change. What happened? Well, in 1500, we started getting hints of capitalism. Started out slow. Some of a good first example is James Watt. He came up with this idea for a steam engine. And but to build a prototype steam engine, you need money. So he went out and tried to find capitalists, that is, people who would invest in him, give him the money to build this prototype steam engine in return for some of the profits if it worked. That was the birth of capitalism, basically, that kind of thing. From 1500 to about 1800, per capita GDP, the amount the world was worth, basically, went up 40%. Now that's huge. I mean, no progress for 1,500 years, and then suddenly in 300 years, boom, 40% better. Now, in 1800, things got even better. The US was born. The first country in the world built on capitalism. In fact, capitalism was so important to the birth of the US that it was the first country in the world to put patents in its constitution. And there's three things you have to have to have human progress. You have to have entrepreneurs, inventors who come up with ideas for new stuff, you need capitalists, that is, people who are willing to pay the entrepreneur to make this stuff, and you need protected property rights, patents. Because who's going to go to all that effort and spend all that money if they can't make money on it? So those are the three critical things you have to have to for human progress to exist. Now, in that time from the year one to 1500, the hate the rich thing was right. It was true. Why? What's different? Well, think about it. Back then, there was the same amount of stuff for 15 per person for 1,500 years. Now, if there's a fixed amount of stuff, how can you get more? Well, there's only one way, you gotta take it from somebody else, right? Robin Hood was right. Because they were stealing from other people. That was the only way they could get rich. Capitalism changed all that. That's the part people don't get. Nowadays, the rich don't take from anybody else. Like I've already pointed out with Bates and Gates and Bezos and Musk, they get rich by giving, not by taking. Because what they do is they grow the economy. So they make things better for everybody. So they're not the bad guys anymore, they're the heroes. Now, again, are there bad guys out there making money? Of course there are. There's bad guys in everything making money, and that's not the issue we're sure to talk about. But in ideal capitalism, the good guys are the good guys. And now what happened after 1800? Once the US got started, from 1800 to today, everybody in the world is 18 times better off than they were in 1800. That's for the whole world, because we've drugged the whole world along with us. In the developed world, the US, Europe, Japan, it's better off. So capitalism has made our listeners 40 times better off than they would have been without capitalism. Now, is that something people really want to give up? And capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than any system imagined. In 1950, 39% of the world lived in extreme poverty. Today it's 9%. And we're rapidly zooming in on hardly any. We just about eliminated extreme poverty. And that's happened because of capitalism. Because everything is better. And people say, well, yeah, but it's not as good as it used to be. They talk to people like me and say, You boomers had it way better. Let me wake you up a little bit. I was a raised in a middle class family, family of six. My parents, my three brothers and sisters. And we lived in a house of 961 square feet. That today that sounds ridiculous. But and that wasn't just me. That was that you looked around our neighborhood, and that's what you saw. Everybody had a house that size. Now, do you think there's any physicians out there today with a 1,400 square foot house?

SPEAKER_00 22:56

Yeah, yes, it would be what is it? Either a surgeon with years of savings or a doctor who owns a private practice that does successfully well.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

Yeah, it's a whole different thing. I mean, the average house today is 2,500 square feet. Now, it's even the difference is even bigger than that. Huh? Well, I live at 961 square feet with a family of six. The average family size today is three. So you've got two and a half times the space and half the population in it. So the cost per square foot is almost six times greater than the space per dollar, I should say, is far greater. On top of that, the house I grew up in and the houses on my street, not just not just me. There was no such thing as central air conditioning then. And I live in Chicago where it was like 80 degrees and 80% humidity, and it was not fun. No air conditioning. No central heat. We had a radiator in every room. And you had to go through around every day and make sure the radiator was working. And in the top, there was a little reservoir you had to put water into, otherwise, it would dry out the house and all kinds of problems. No microwave, no dishwasher, no dryer. One of my jobs as a kid was to hang the laundry on the line outside. And the washing machine was a dump in-the-top rotary thing with a ringer. There was no spin cycle or anything like that. The spin cycle was you put it in the ringer and turn the crank and watch the thing go through and get rung out. If our listeners don't know about that, they can look it up, see what an old washer looked like. But nothing like what we have today. Telephone. We didn't have cell phones, as you probably know. The telephone in our house, and in most houses back then, was on a party line. But that man was a but when you wanted to use the phone, you'd pick it up and listen for a minute. Because one of your neighbors might already be talking on the phone. So you had to hang back up and wait till that party line cleared. So you try again in a little bit, and when it finally cleared, you could make your call. And that was local calls only. Long distance was ridiculously expensive. You had you had, I mean, you had to save up to make a 10-minute long distance call to your relatives in another state. It was a big deal.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Let me just yeah, I was at the end of that phase in the long distance call. Oh, yeah. I was gonna tell a little personal story that I never revealed about that long distance call, that that bill, which I know you know, I'm sure you know it was very expensive, and it costs tension and even arguments, even not explosive. One of my older brothers made a long-distance call for someone like couple of estates away for hours. Yes, so you can imagine hours. I forget what it was three, four hours when my father got the mail, saw that he came to the room, busted down the door, and since we're keeping it clean, he said all kinds of colorful words at them. What the people you doing? Why are you calling these the B-word? You know, and yeah, it that was my fault. It was not, and you know, you don't know who they are, and then he even called them, he called them all kinds of names, it was a big argument, yeah. It was a big shouting match because of that bill. That bill was like I all I can say is it was probably in the four digits or something like that. It was definitely four digits, yeah. So that really aggravated my father. So I knew about that story. I knew about that a little bit, even though when I was like a little kid at that, not even like a little kid, I was practically, yeah, I was like, I was like four years old, that four or five. I didn't know what I didn't I didn't understand what the heck the argument was about, but what I was told about it later, it's oh I don't understand why you yelled and lost your mind because the you know that long distance, you know, there was no cell phone. I mean, cell phones was not accessible to most people at that time. So yeah, I gotta say, I yeah, I I this is why I that's why I tell the young generation you need to appreciate this technology here because I told him about the modem, the modem I'm gonna bring up. You cannot be in the internet and using the house phone at the same time. No, it's either one or the other, and then one of them has to pick up the co while you online, an online connection is gone just like that. You can be in the middle of chatting, playing games, whatever. This is like AOL days, people. Yes, I'm aging myself just slightly. Um so yeah, and you know, I I tell the the Gen Z younger, I said, look, you can have your criticisms, but just appreciate if you want to live the old days, get ready for inconveniences that you have never imagined. All right, so don't just be going nostalgia just just because you're feeling sad about today. I'm not saying today is you know, to you know, today got struggles, but at least appreciate the technology that you have now. That's that's my main message. I'm so I'm sorry, just continue. I just had to bring some other you triggered some personal memories that kept up there. Go ahead.

When Government Breaks Price Signals

SPEAKER_01 28:35

Well, I guess the next thing I would think might be good to take a look at is what what what are the problems that that capitalism has, and what what can we do to fix that? Because the the problems that we see with capitalism aren't problems with capitalism, they are virtually all problems of government. What we talked about my grandfather as a physician, and uh he may have been a little bit better off than my dad, but not gigantically so by any means. Well, how is that what changed that? Well, the government got started meddling with health care and they started by giving big tax break and incentives for people getting insurance. So basically they invented insurance companies. See, back then when you went to the doctor, you just paid. And people could save and so on, but it was a lot cheaper back then because the prices weren't inflated by all the stuff that it's inflated by now, thanks to government. And so that's changed everything. And another good example people complain about is college education. What happened there? Well, in the 70s, the government decided everybody should go to college. And they would start helping to fund it by creating student loans. Now, when I got my first degree, it was pretty easy to get a part-time job and pay your way through college. Try that today. Unless your per part-time job is as a stockbroker, it ain't gonna happen. And the reason why is because the same thing that happened with health insurance. It's a phenomenon in which you separate the producer and the consumer. I had to go to the doctor the other day, you probably can't see it, but I smashed my thumb. And it's it's getting better now. But went to the doctor, did my appointment, got a couple of blah blah. Here's the problem. I have no idea what that cost. Not only could I not compare some shop ahead of time, I don't know right now how much it costs. It could have been $500, it could have been $5,000. If you told me either of those numbers, I wouldn't be surprised. I would go, oh, okay. That's what I mean by separating the producer and the consumer. Capitalism works when we shop, when we look for the best deal, when we negotiate prices. When you can't do that, the same thing happens every time. Prices go up. In the case of education, eight times faster than inflation. Yeah, that's huge. That's why people have student loan debt today. It's not because capitalism did it to them, it's because the government did it, intervened in something it didn't understand. That's a lot of the problem, and we'll get into that in a minute with socialism too. But the economy is a very, very complex system. And because of that, it's uncontrollable. And every time we try and control it, we screw it up. But it's big a lot of stuff. And in fact, probably the best example I know about, and I think there's a whole chapter almost in my book about this, in the early 80s, two guys were able to convince the federal government that fat makes you fat. That eating fat is the cause of being fat. So the government came out with this food pyramid. It basically said eat lots of carbohydrates, but don't eat fat. And what did we get? An epidemic of obesity. A complete epidemic. And thousands, probably millions, of early deaths. Because the government jumped into something it didn't know enough about. Complex systems are well, your body is a good example of a complex system. It's virtually impossible to understand it. We try these treatments, and some of them help. But let me give you an example. If I go out today and do something and get my arm cut off, is that gonna kill me?

SPEAKER_00 33:14

Well, you'll lose a heck of a lot of blood, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 33:17

Well, yeah, but but I mean, assuming they that they get to me in time and patch it up, my life may be a little less comfortable for a while, but I won't die. Now, how is it that I can take a huge chunk of my body and have it removed and not not have a catastrophic effect on the rest of my body? Because it's a complex system. And that's why when the government tinkers with the economy, most of the time their tinkering doesn't really fix the problem. Because the system itself readjusts, it adapts.

The Economy As A Complex System

SPEAKER_01 33:56

On my website, I'll plug in there. On my website, my last series of articles, in fact, I just pulled one up today, has been about comparing the economy to the environment. And over in the last century, we learned some really important things about the environment. We tried intervention after intervention, we tried damming rivers, we tried channeling rivers, we tried removing predators, tried, tried all kinds of stuff, and every one of them not only failed, it made things worse. A good example is fires. Okay, we better every time a fire starts, we're gonna rush in there and put it out. And what did we find out? Putting out all those little fires created gigantic forest fires because that fuel that was being burned off by the small fires, was now piling up and piling up, so all it took was a match, and boom, the whole forest goes up. We we found out about a good example, north rim of the Grand Canyon. I'm in Arizona. And in the 20s, they were concerned about the deer population. They thought the that the wolves were doing too much damage to the deer population, so they put a bounty on predators, wolves and mountain lions. What happened? The deer population exploded. Exploded and exploded and exploded, and they ate all the vegetation. So then all the deer died. And the what remained only remained because we were flying in hay to them every day. The environment is a very, very complex system. You can't change one part of it and not see it ripple through everything else. And the economy is exactly the same way. And what we have to learn, what we've already learned with the environment, and what we have to learn with economics is humility. Understand that it's too big for us to manage. We can't do it. We there nobody is smart enough to even begin to approach it. Now, what can we do to make things better? Well, of course, we have to have guardrails. Like in the case of the environment, we have to protect it. We want to keep people from messing it up. Don't let other people change it either, is really the message. And the same thing is true of the economy. If there's people doing monopolistic practice or scams or doing things to hurt people, we have to stop them. That's a given. But the government shouldn't be intervening either.

Why Socialism Turns Into Force

SPEAKER_01 36:39

And that gets us to the probably the question that most of our listeners want to hear about, and that is if socialism is such a nice idea, why doesn't it work? And the socialism has indeed failed every time it's been tried. And it fails largely because of the things just now mentioned. The economy is just too big to be controlled. And now remember, as we defined socialism earlier, it's where the government takes over the means of production and all the property. Now, why would that be a bad thing? Couldn't they do every time they tried it, Russia's five-year plans always failed. Every time they tried it, China's five-year plans always failed. Why? It should be simple. Just plan what to do and then do it. And here's the reason. Do you know what you're gonna buy next week? I mean, do you know everything you're gonna buy next week? No. Next month?

SPEAKER_00 37:38

No. Next year? No. Not without planning, you know, with savings, but there's gonna be, you know, unknown factors that come along the way.

SPEAKER_01 37:47

That's the point. I don't know what my wife is gonna buy next tomorrow. But if I had to plan the economy, that would mean I would have to know what nine billion people are planning to buy a year or two from now.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

That's impossible. We don't even know our selves in our situation.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

That's the point. That's exactly right. Is that it's not that they aren't trying. It's that you're they're you're asking them to do something that's completely impossible. But that's also why socialism always ends up as a dictatorship. Because if you make the if you can't predict stuff, you all you can do is like flip a coin and make stuff. And then you have to force people to buy it. And then they're gonna try and get a start a black market. They're gonna try and buy stuff from somewhere else. So then you have to stop them from doing that. So, like in North Korea, if you buy a pair of American jeans, it's the death penalty. And so socialism always has to end up as dictatorship because you can't control the economy if you can't control everything. And so the the whole idea of socialism can't possibly work. It's even if you love the idea, it doesn't matter what you think about it, it's impossible. And again, history has proven that. People say, well, it'll be better this time. We've never done it right. We've never done it in the United States. Well, we have done it in the United States. As a matter of fact, two of the first colonies in the United States, the Mayflower Colony and Jamestown, both started as collectivist projects. And they both almost starved to death until they went, until they stopped doing it as a collectivist thing and divided up the property. And, you know, don't take my word. You can look it up easy enough. But this stuff.

Sunset Laws Supermajorities Single Issues

SPEAKER_01 39:41

So then the question becomes, what do we do to fix it, I guess? And there are a lot of things I think that would help. A lot of them are political, because we have to set things up so the government can do less dumb stuff. That's one of the really important things we have to fix. And there are several things I think we could do that would help make that happen. First one I would suggest is every bill has an expiration date. So you pass a law, and we could quibble about how long. Let's just say 10 years to throw something out there. Pass a law, in ten years it expires. If it turned out to be a great idea, great. Do it again. If it doesn't turn out to be a great idea, it's gone. That's one of the reasons we have such a divide, a divisive country, is because politicians have learned that if they get a bill through the House and Senate by one vote, it's gonna last forever. So they fight really hard to get that bill through. If they knew it was gonna expire in 10 years anyway, they'd be a lot less divisive. The next thing I would suggest is that every bill requires a supermajority. Two-thirds, three-fourths, we could argue about the amount. But if a majority of people don't agree with it, how good an idea can it really be? I mean, the big stuff, murder, no problem getting a supermajority there. You get 95% on that, maybe 98%.

SPEAKER_00 41:15

Probably unanimous, probably one of the few ones.

SPEAKER_01 41:18

That's right. And so, but that's another reason things are so divisive. That people know that all it takes is one extra vote and you can get something through. But if they know it's it takes going to take two-thirds or three-fourths, they're gonna go, now wait a minute, maybe this isn't such a good idea after all. Maybe I shouldn't do it.

SPEAKER_00 41:37

Let me interject. I like those are some good ideas because I don't hear people say these ideas. I mean, some of them do expire, like certain tax breaks, things like that. But I think many laws should have expiration dates. And I like that. This puts limits if it's a bad idea, it rocks away. Because what I love that you point out that a lot of laws that we have are outdated, I mean, they were great year one. Really like that. This is very thoughtful, people. You know, a lot of people just talk about these policies, shoving it in and shoving it in, but expiration data policies, that's that's very good. I've got to say that, and the supermajority, I actually love that idea too, because I that's so lazy. Everyone's in a mad rush just to get it in there because once it's in there, unfortunately, it is permanent unless the Congress finally have the guts and the people to repeal it. And that's almost never that's like a 1% chance on someone's lifetime for that to happen. And that's just me being generous. But go on.

SPEAKER_01 42:35

I'd like yeah, yeah, you mentioned piling stuff in, and that would be my next suggestion is every bill is a single-issue bill. Because that's another thing that promotes divisiveness, is everybody is trying to cram their favorite garbage project into every bill. And so we get these huge bills to use Nancy Pelosi's worlds. We have to read it, so we have to pass it so we can read it. What in what reality is that not insane that we're gonna pass a law that we don't know what's in it? Because it's too big to understand. It's it's insanity. And so every bill should be one issue, one issue only. Dramatically simplifies things.

SPEAKER_00 43:24

Oh, I agree. Oh, one more thing. I like what you said there, because that's a lot of you hear certain politicians hold out because there's one thing they don't like in that massive package bill. And so for some reason, this is what I don't like the media for. They kind of villainize those holdouts. I said they have a legitimate concern. What if one has too much surveillance or too much political correctness, or one is just saying, oh, the government can seize your property anytime? Oh, great. These are legitimate concerns. So I like that people, I'm gonna be really listening here. I'm interjecting just to emphasize that these. These are really good ideas. I don't care you lean right or left here. I'm a moderate. But you know, I'm sure some of the lefties are gonna hate hate this episode because of the criticism of socialism, but that's okay. I trust me, I have episodes that will kind of favor the left. I try to balance things out as a moderate. But hey, this is not a safe space. You're gonna be exposed to different ideas, hey, whether you like it or not. This is not an echo chamber. I'm trying to fight against echo chambers here, people. So this is why it's purple and it's colorful now. But it used to be just purple now, it's colorful because you're gonna see different mesh of ideas. And this is not a comfort place for you, okay? That's all I'm gonna say. I'm sorry, keep going.

SPEAKER_01 44:38

Oh, no problem. Next thing

Lobbying Citizens United And Gerrymandering

SPEAKER_01 44:40

I think is really critical is to dramatically curtail, if not eliminate, lobbying. And a lot of people have complained that since the Supreme Court ruled on Citizens United that money is speech, that you can't limit lobbying. But they're wrong about that. It's real simple. We pass a law that says politicians have to refuse contributions other than from a private citizen or for more than say $100. Now, what Citizens United said was that money is speech. Let's accept that that's true. Taking the money is listening. And so there's there's nothing in the Constitution that says you have to listen. It gives you freedom of speech. And so we can tell the politicians, yeah, they're free to speak, but you're not you're not free to listen to them. So you can't take the money no matter what who is offering it or why. And I think that would solve the problem. And Congress could do that without having to change the Constitution or anything. Simple thing. Not I don't think they're gonna do it, but and finally, another thing that we need to fix is redistricting. Obviously, this year it's been crazy. And it it's it's just a such a dumb thing. It's very fixable. In a lot of the places where this redistricting has been the biggest problem is in places where there's a relatively close amount, let's say 60% one party, 40% the other party. But then you look at their congressional representation, and it's all one party. Well, how did that happen? 40% of their population was disenfranchised because of gerrymandering. They've redistricted redistrict. So a simple way to fix that is just to say the districting has to match your voter registr registration. If your voter registration is 60% Democrat and 40% Republican, that's how your congressional district has to look. Your congressional representation. That way nobody gets disenfranchised. So I think those are all things that could help us solve the problem. And if those things were all put in place, the government would do a lot less dumb stuff because they wouldn't, they no longer have the power to do it.

SPEAKER_00 47:05

No, well, you you know, actually, some of the left might like that part of citizens united, at least the progressive left, because they really try to target lobbying and the citizens united, which I'm very critical of those two, because I think they messed up elections and all that. And I don't want to say it ruined the integrity of election. I think that's a bit too far, but it did, you know, create a distorted results. Let me just say like that. You're picking someone who don't necessarily represent, you know, what the people really want. You just picking someone that the corporations or you know, people with big pockets. Oh, yeah. Oh, you're gonna support my tax break for me? Okay, yeah. You're taking this my money in speech, my fifty thousand dollars of speech. So there you go. Yeah, you said take it as listening, so listen to me. Take my money. So, you know, it's I I you know, personally, I'm I'm against those things. And I hope eventually when Congress changes up its composition, I mean maybe that'll be overturned. And I and I like about the redistricting because there's been a lot of states so far, a little more reds. Blues have done it too. They're not completely uh blameless, they have done their redictressing as well, and yeah, that's making more districts red, you know, and that's giving political, you know, the parties more power. The political party gain more power for doing that. It's all about it's all about chess moves that gain more power, which it screws the people. So I I agree with that. I didn't like either side doing it. I said, Oh, so you gotta do this because you know you're not that popular, so you're trying to manipulate skew the results so you can maintain power. You know, it may disenfranchise enough people as a cause. I don't know. Maybe state like Texas can have a Democrat governor. I don't know. You know, just keep pushing your luck. But, you know, I think that's far-fetched for now. But I don't know, who knows? If the Democrat Socialists of America are winning seats, uh yeah, they're gonna win seats, especially my state of New York. They they're fighting again, you know, they fight against moderate Democrats that are safe blue districts. Yeah, they they're gonna win. The Republican at best could get like 20% of the vote. So, so expect some DSA people to come in under the Democratic banner, people, because that's what people's voted for. This is

Nordic Countries Are Not Socialism

SPEAKER_00 49:22

why socialism is getting increasingly more popular, and just like our great professor says here, it's not going to work because we humans are too stupid. So let's be clear. I mean, it's a little harsh word. Uh let me just use a nice word, too silly. We could we could barely predict our own planning and what we're gonna do, okay? We could plan for some things, but there's a lot of things, there's a lot of unknowns that's gonna happen. You don't know if a big, I don't know, a big metal debris could come and knock your head off and then or you're on disability. No one plans for that.

SPEAKER_01 49:54

So yeah, I mean, and it's it's not just silliness or stupidity, it's apathy. In New York City's election, Bandami won with the support of only about 12% of New Yorkers. Because only a fourth of them voted, and he only won by 51%. So he barely got 12-13 percent of the of New Yorkers voting for him. And so the other 75% that didn't vote deserve what they got, and it's gonna be bad. New York is not gonna do well. It their tax base is tax base is eroding. Anybody with money that's got any brains is leaving.

SPEAKER_00 50:50

I'm a young person, has not personally experienced socialism, but based on my reading and understanding, I don't want to experience it ever. Maybe be a visitor of that country to see what it is, but do I want to be the permanent resident of that? My simple answer is hell no. Just like that. No, I don't.

SPEAKER_01 51:09

Yeah, a lot of people think a lot of people think that that when they think of socialism, they think of the Nordic countries. Sweden, Denmark. That's not socialism, guys. That's not even close to socialism. In fact, you look at most indices and they have freer economies in most of them than the US does. Those are capitalist countries all the way. They have a larger safety net. How do they get that larger safety net? 60% average tax rate. Plus 25% sales tax. No, I'm not saying if if that's the choice they want to make, if they if they want to have a country where everything is paid for, and you have 60% of your money taken in taxes and a 25% sales tax on top of that, if that's your choice, great, go for it. But I don't think most Americans even want that. But I know most Americans don't really want socialism. Remember, I said earlier, North Korea and Cuba

North Korea Cuba And Marx Against Progress

SPEAKER_01 52:25

are the only two socialist countries in the world right now. Does anybody really want the US to become like North Korea? Where the average person lives on $2 a day.

SPEAKER_00 52:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 52:47

And the same kind of thing is true in Cuba. I mean, people think they're suffering here in the US. They don't know suffering. They have no idea. In countries that are have flirted with socialism, the pain is way worse than any American feels. It's it's it's unbelievable the stuff that goes on there. And as I said earlier, if you participate in the black market, you're executed. There are places in North Korea where people sell their children for other people to eat. Yeah, I mean, we're talking about stuff that as Americans, it's like another planet. We can't even begin to imagine it. And the reason it happens is because socialism doesn't work. And it doesn't work on purpose. When Karl Marx, the father of socialism, was raised in Bavaria, in like a small town, mom and pop shops, agrarian economy. He thought that was heaven. He he went to college in Berlin and thought it was horrible. And he blamed progress. He thought the whole problem was progress. It should have stayed very so he tried to design a system with the help of Engels to it would stop progress. And he succeeded. That's exactly what socialism does. That's why North Korea is in the belt area. They cannot make any progress because they've disabled the progress engine. The progress engine is inventors inventing stuff, capitalists funding them to develop that stuff, and protection for their their what they make. And in North Korea, that can't happen because of socialism, so the country cannot progress. It's locked in I don't know probably the late 1800s compared to the US. I mean, it's ridiculously backward because of that. And so socialism is built on an idea that it will never work. It can't work economically, it can't work politically. It's impossible.

SPEAKER_00 55:41

Oh well, like I said, this is not an echo chamber. I'm gonna expose even point of views that I don't agree with. Let's give you a choice, people, not illusion choice, a choice. What do you like, what you don't like? Look, and I think it's good that I bring different perspectives here, different understanding, even dealing with misconceptions and misunderstandings, because I have a feeling, even me to some degree, are ignorant. I mean, I had some of that understanding you said earlier about you know trading in value. That's what economic is not always about money, but the way we talk about it, it always sensors around money. But the impacts is far more simpler than that. I mean, I'm sure the horse is smart enough to know that they they'd rather travel to a river two miles away, so they're 25 miles away. Um, you know, economics. Yeah, bringing a lot less calories, getting what it needs to survive, water as opposed to going to uh another river 25 miles away. They think on survival. So to them, they don't they just need to know you know how far they need to travel. I'm certainly not measuring in math, but they know what's a shortcut just to ensure their survival. That's more than enough for them. Humans, well, we're a little more interesting. Maybe we want to compete with ego, maybe we want to go to the 25 mile river to see how great we are, how strong we are, instead of you know, the more shortcut-oriented people. I don't want to call them lazy, even though some of them are. Go to the two mile river, gather your water there. So, hey, it's just a money thing. I love the environment comparison because every time we try to do something for better or worse with the best intentions or with the worst intentions, depending on who. The impact is not always great. I mean, I was gonna use a very New York-based example, what I know is in my environment. Fireflies, those cute little fireflies, they're almost extinct. Because we plant trees that's not compatible with the soil, and they need specific trees and leaves that they can survive, grow, and thrive on. They're not there because we decide to shred them, replace them with better trees. Well, look at that. We are nearly wiping out fireflies. Thank you, environmentalists. Yeah, so go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 58:02

And it may be worse than that because as I said earlier, change with the environment or the economy ripples through and affects everything. So there's questions like what eats fireflies? How does the absence of fireflies affect them? What do those creatures do to the environment? Will we miss their activity? Will uh do other animals eat them? Does their poop fertilize things? There's a huge amount of stuff. All these feedback loops make make it impossible to predict what losing fireflies could do to the environment.

SPEAKER_00 58:50

Yep. This is all I'm gonna say. I'm happy you beat me to it. We're just learning at least a surface level ripple effects. I'm sure there's more of a come. Maybe this is why we have more cicada flies coming, those weird, ugly-looking ones coming from the underground. Maybe they're comfortable to come out. Oh, those pesky fireflies are not around. I don't know. I'm not an expert. You can look this up. You can even debunk, debate with your host there. I'm not gonna die on that hill. But we are learning the ripple effects, and you know, more consequences are gonna come. Some are gonna be slower than others, but we're gonna feel them one way or another. This is why I just believe we should try to protect, preserve whatever natural water that is left. And look, I'm for environmental protection. I'm not gonna be one of those, oh, who cares? Let's just convert all this to fuel or whatever. We can just power the cars and all the other crazy stuff, you know, fossil fuels and all that good stuff, people. I I know it sounds like a boomer topic now because you're all about electric cars or getting more electric, electric. That's good. But what are the consequences? Oh, you gotta recharge them all. They stop right in the middle of the road. So that's that's that that's a ripple flick of that choice right there that some of you are not thinking about. But hey, but for those of you who own us, you know what I'm talking about, and I'm sure you're not gonna make that mistake for the most part. Yeah, I mean, this has been a great conversation. I'm definitely enlightened. You can capitalize that word because I definitely feel like I have a much better understanding now. So Tusmers love to complicate things, it's more simple than we expected. And look, for socialists, I know you're pissed off. Capitalists, you're cheering on. Yeah, we got a proud, devoured capitalist here. But hey, I expose all kinds of points of view, even left-leaning. Don't worry, left-leaning people, you're gonna you already got your episodes. You cheer for me, promoting environmentalist people, having government intervention and all that other stuff. I will not mind some of that, but um, like I said, the the thing is I just think them putting their middle people, getting involved with the insurance companies and student loans, yeah. Go blame your government. If you want to blame the government, blame them for that because they create the middle people and jack up everything. So we gotta get rid of middle people, especially those things. I'm sure the costs would go astronomically lower. They're gonna probably feel like they're in the 1970s again with those prices. Maybe I'm a little too hopeful, but we'll see. But we'll we'll see. Um, I don't think they're not going away anytime soon if I'm gonna be realistic. No, but regardless, I've definitely learned a lot.

Plugs Ratings Premium And Final Thanks

SPEAKER_00 1:01:28

Thank you, Dr. Doug Cardell, for the education. And this is I'm gonna jokingly tell you and why socialism is bad despite its appeal. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:42

But if you want to learn more, buy my book and look at my website.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:45

Uh look at that great instinct. I was just gonna plug. This is all about plug. This is very capitalistic, so shameless plugins are always welcome. And you know, my guess, my guess, they have great timing. I don't even have to educate it. And the sad part I'm gonna call myself out. I don't really say, oh, yeah, shameless plugins is good, it's good. But I think you listened to one of my episodes that you really picked up the pattern right there. So, yep. Go to Doug Cardell.com. And it's spelled D-O-U-G-C-R-A-D-L-L dot com.c-o-m. Follow him, okay? You gotta get more educated with economics because I'm just so afraid. And he's truly professional. You want to know why? He only has LinkedIn, you don't have a YouTube, I believe you don't have an Instagram and all that other social medias. So he's real professional, just only LinkedIn. Follow him in LinkedIn as well, okay? Yeah, because only real professionals only use LinkedIn. They all use the YouTube, the Twitter, I refuse to call it X, I'm that petty, or Facebook, I'm not calling that meta, and all the other social media, the TikToks, and all that good stuff. So it's real professional, so follow him. And I I'll know those who follow more professionals. You you won't go, oh, why are you gonna use the social media? You think he's so you think he's better than us? You asked against that question. I am not gonna do that, but he whispered no, by the way. So, and look, he's a he's a humble person, okay? I I thought I could defend him on that. That I will die on that hill. Poor Doug. All right. So, anything else you want to add before I wrap this up?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:28

No, I think we've I think we've had a great conversation. I think we've covered a lot of ground. And I guess I should say I would like your audience to buy my book and look at my website, but not because I'm trying to make money on this deal, but because I think I've created something of value that I hope will help them.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:45

Enhance your understanding. Get the darn book. I'm gonna command you to get it. I'm gonna be a little forceful, a little dictator. Get that book, get that book, all right? Get that book. All right, because we really need to increase our understanding of economics. A lot of people, I'm sure even a lot of politicians don't even know what economics is. They just say because it's a buzzword and it gets attention, and especially those on social media, forget it. I could destroy them for hours, but I'm not gonna do that. Doug and I have much better things to do, okay? So, bro, just get that book, people. Just get just get the book. Why social, you know, just get that book. Yeah, why socialism struggles? I just say why socialism doesn't work. But I I don't know, that title was already taken. I'm sure it's legalese and process and all that. I haven't written the book yet. I'm thinking about doing that at some point, not now. Then I'll learn the intricate, the legal stuff, the intricacies, why you can't have certain titles. I say, why socialism doesn't work, you dummies. Have a provocative title. But hey, he's too humble for a provocative title. I get it. I've been talking, conversing with him. He's not a provocateur. Be out of my be the provocateur, you know. So hey, you know, it's been a great conversation, really. I've learned a lot. And listen, I hope you learn it too. The definitions, okay? Capitalism, socialism, fascism, and what econom what kind of you know, what economics really is, okay. It's way more than just money, even though we talk in money. And you can blame the meeting the medias and social media for that too, because everything's always censored. Money is always censored around money. This doesn't get easy, PhD, okay? This is a certified PhD, not by fake ones and one like to insult. Pathetic and hilariously dumb. Those were the fake PhD. This is a real PhD here. Okay, he knows what he's talking about. I'm listening. You know, if I don't ask as much questions or interject as much, it's because it's good stuff. And I'm gonna ask this one more time to make sure. Are you sure you don't want to add anything before I wrap this up?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:49

I'm good. I think we've had a great conversation. I really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:52

Thank you everyone for listening to this podcast. So now I'm gonna talk about me here. This is a more selfish part. Rate this podcast if it if it's a one to four stars, give me one specific thing I should improve. You can do multiple, but at least one if you give me less than five stars. If it's a five star, why is it great? What should I double down and what should I keep doing? And then if you want, you can stick even a little improvement in there as well. You know, I want to make it as flexible as possible. Um, you know, I'm fine with that. And uh you can rate an Apple Podcast, and yes, I'm gonna allow Spotify as well. Some of you prefer Spotify, even though now I think that CEO is in hot water because of his system and how it's being exposed not to help artists around the world. I mean, what do you expect? Once you have celebrities and their music in there, it's gonna take a lot of it's gonna bring a lot of traffic over there. It's not gonna help the lesser known artists. Not saying he's a bad guy, it's a great product. I like Spotify. I like to listen to music on the go. You know, it's it's a great product. And now they have music videos, it's a great product. But I think he should do a little more to try to improve, you know, lesser-known artists to at least make some go. Are they gonna become millionaires? Absolutely not. I'm not I'm not even expecting that to happen. But if it does, I'm not gonna argue. I'll be oh wow, that's a miracle. But, you know, the average some artist, one I've been that's been exposed during the congressional year, makes only $12 a month. Yeah, that's like so that's socialist salary right there. You spent $2 a day. I think that's a little better than $12 a month. That's worse than socialist salary right there. Oh, how are you gonna? Oh, how I'm gonna spend these pennies and all that. You can't. Even in developing countries. So, yeah, that's a struggle if you're doing that. You gotta be a breakout star at that point. So the reason why I mentioned that, because this is about economics and all that. And I'm look, I'm still gonna use Spotify despite all that. You know, it's not just for music, it's also for good if you want an audiobook as well. So it, you know, it's expanding, it's evolving, which I like. Netflix now allows video games, you know, even though they're a streaming company. So that's interesting right there. I am for innovation, I am for for that. So that's good stuff, good stuff right there. You know, you're gonna say, ah, that people I want to reject evil. You do that. You got the comment section to express your function. Okay, what am I doing? Now I'm yammering a lot. So, one more thing before I go, and all I'm gonna say is this you know, really, on the bottom of my heart, thank you so much. And um, you know, the premium version is you get to listen to the classic episodes, that's three dollars a month as well. And that's episodes one through 140. The rest is absolutely free, so you do that. But I am gonna start having exclusive content, and this is where your host is a lot less tame, and we're gonna deal with a lot more taboo, controversial ideas, because I am supporter of freedom of speech. But I also need some money for that as well, because what if I get canceled? That's why I got Rumble as a backup. Love YouTube, I love YouTube, it's a much bigger, better platform, but YouTube got weird rules and it's changed and involved on that, and I'm not a big fan of that, even though it's a great, you know, it's a it's a great platform, but I'm not a fan of their constantly evolving standards of adding rules so they could just strike, even though you follow rules in the past, because now the new rules say, Oh, you actually violated the term service. That's the same to me, but what are we gonna do too? We have a new viable alternative. I'm gonna just shut up and just stick with YouTube until there's something of greater value that could blow YouTube out of the water. It's not gonna happen anytime soon. I'm a realist, so all right. So, and this is the true ending of the podcast. So, whenever you listen to this podcast, you have a blessed day, afternoon, or night.